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It seems that for many converts, Orthodoxy is the place where they can continue their hatred of the papacy while enjoying the idea that they have finally found "The New Testament Church".

Wonder how they would have gotten along as Orthodox in the 7th century under the rule of Pope St. Gregory the Great?

Brother Ed

[font:Century Gothic]Dearest brothers in Christ,

Don't allow your feathers to get ruffled by some fundamentalists and triumphalists. They exist in every Christian faith tradition and they even exist *within* faiths; one towards the other .

As a cradle Orthodox, their attitude bothers me too. On the other hand, I am learning to put to practice the spiritual discipline (with difficulty--as this is the most difficult of all spiritual disciplines) that we should not judge our brothers. There is a saying in Greek: 'that is their accountability--not ours'.

I once lamented this attitude in prayer to Our Lady, and I was enlightened with the thought that 'this is the way they can get close to God'. So, therefore, if that is true, we need to turn the other cheek, speak lovingly, not engage in polemical confrontation, and simply pray for a mellowing that will help all brothers and sisters in Christ to appreciate the other, not to want the other to be exactly like us, and to realize that there is no perfect approach, rubric, thought and or discipline to Him other than love and humility...and though they may not look upon the other, whether he is Latin Catholic or Orthodox of another calendar or jurisdiction, as better than they are, we are called to do that for the perfection of our own souls.

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

P.S. This thread has gone off topic, so let's get back to the afterlife, or start another thread. Thanks. [/font]

That hatred is not necessarily the same as questioning whether the papacy as Rome now understands it is divinely instituted or a man-made rank like patriarch, metropolitan and archbishop but yup.

Dear Brother Ed,

My first question is "what are you talking about?" What "venom" have I given you? Why Russians? Fr Seraphim was an American. And I am really confused by your comment that I "seem to want nothing to do with anything of what the Catholic Faith teaches". I am Orthodox and I have what the Church has given me. Nowhere have I stated that I believe that the Catholic faith is wrong on all accounts. I have given you 2 and 2 and you have come up with 47!
You are reading an Orthodox book, and had some questions. I merely answered them for you. I am sorry if you were looking for some ecumenical "love-fest". Please elaborate on what I, or Blessed Seraphim wrote that you find to be hateful.

Alexandr

Can you please explain exactly what you mean by stating that Pope Gregory the Great "ruled" the Orthodox in the 7th century?
An Ecumenical Council is the highest form of church goverance.

Alexandr --

You have said really nothing. But I find in the book over and over the sense that the West is in massive error. Perhaps I have misunderstood his intent.

I'm sure the issue of the papacy has been more than beat to death here regarding the manner in which the position of "first among equals" is properly understood. My understanding, and you can certainly correct my errors, is that the decrees of ecummenical councils were sent to Rome for final approval. It is also my understanding that Eastern bishops would turn to Rome for administrative decisions and the deposition of heretical bishops.

I would call that "rule".

Brother Ed

There's believing that Orthodoxy is the una sancta and then there's being a jerk about it. (For example the tsarist Russians often weren't.) Fr Seraphim was extreme but based on what I remember not strident about it that often in his books. He had a lot of good insights about modernity and what's wrong with it that he had in common with Roman Catholic traditionalists and some almost unique ones like that the hippies had a point.

As for early ecumenical councils being approved by the Popes to make them official I'm no scholar but AFAIK that's incorrect.

No that is not the "rule" according to Eastern Orthodox belief. The Ecumenical Councils are the highest authority.
That is one of the issues (only one not all) with the addition of the filoque. The creed was accepted by an Ecumenical Council and the "filioque" was added to the creed afterwards.

Sorry, but this topic has gone awry and the thread seems to be going all over the place, therefore, I am closing it.

Alice, Moderator