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Dec 29th, 2019
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My thoughts are this is obviously not shocking, but for some reason I would not have expected a statement from all 20.
I've read reaction in another place, among both Catholics and Orthodox, and those discussions were not encouraging.
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Do they always react like this?
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Esphigmenou raised black flags to protest the meeting of Patriarch Athenagoras I of Constantinople and Pope Paul VI.
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I don't get what the problem is. Are they against unity? It's gonna take many meetings between "East" and "West" before more good things can happen.
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Dr. Eric,
The monastics of Mt. Athos are saintly spiritual souls, however, many of them are also hardliners. In their vision, there is no difference between Christianity and Orthodoxy...they are one in the same.
They also feel like the custodians of true Orthodoxy and the Orthodox faith through the ages. For them, the grievances and harshness of our complicated historical religious relationships with the West are still alive, and it may take them much time to overcome their great fears and to achieve 'purification of memory'...(to coin a term from the late Pope John Paul II).
Also, many monastics (especially the older ones) know no other Christians of different traditions, so you cannot appreciate or understand what you don't know. On the other hand, the Bishop of Limassol, Cyprus, a former Athonite monastic, in the book 'Mountain of Silence' speaks with spiritual wisdom and beauty about other Christians, and, perhaps sums up the topic of this thread by saying that those who are fundamentalists are probably just spiritually immature.
Most monasteries on Mt. Athos are not as extreme as Esphigmenou, but, as this article depicts, they do feel some trepidation in relation to unity and ecumenism. They don't want to think about it nor do they really care about it, but in personal holiness and efficacy of prayer for others, they are probably as close to the heavenly realm as one can get.
In Christ,
Alice
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I just wondered what events are referred to in this statement:
The Athos monks wrote that Benedict's efforts "may have had some benefits of secular significance, but included events which are contrary to the foundations of Orthodox practice."
Alice, As I recall,Bishop Athanosios (Cyprus) even he pointed out that the holy ones have their blindspots too.
For that matter, I believe some felt that the anti-Catholic former protestants that make up a large part of American Orthodoxy are just as fervently anti-union as the good Athonite monks.
I guess we can only pray that the Holy Spirit speak to their hearts in a way they can understand. I'm sure both groups would yield their views if they saw that unification is God's will and not just the human desire of caught in the middle Byzcaths!
Peace,
Indigo
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For that matter, I believe some felt that the anti-Catholic former protestants that make up a large part of American Orthodoxy are just as fervently anti-union as the good Athonite monks. Yes, they are heroes to them. Dr. Eric, if you've never read this book - http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Mountain-Journey-Christians-Middle/dp/0805061770 I highly recommend it.
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Thanks for the tip. Is that you Andrew? Is everyone changing their IDs? Should I change to "Eric the Catholic?" 
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For that matter, I believe some felt that the anti-Catholic former protestants that make up a large part of American Orthodoxy are just as fervently anti-union as the good Athonite monks. Indigo, As one that is familiar with the statistics and composition of the make up of the majority of the jurisdictions in America, what do you base this idea that former Protestants make up a large part of American Orthodoxy. From what I can see in the numbers published and by experience as an Orthodox priest, the former Protestants actually are a very small number. Would you care to cite your sources? In IC XC, Father Anthony+
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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I missed that part. Former Protestants as a whole probably don't even make up the majority of a single jurisdiction, let alone the entire Orthodox Church in this country.
Dr. Eric, yes, I changed my display name to my initials.
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I missed that part. Former Protestants as a whole probably don't even make up the majority of a single jurisdiction, let alone the entire Orthodox Church in this country. Andrew, That is why I am bringing up this point so that others do not get the wrong idea that the majority of the Orthodox faithful are comprised of "anti-Catholic" Protestant converts in this country, which are rather a very small minority. In IC XC, Father Anthony+
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Andrew,
I truly thought that you were a new poster!!!
Regards,
Alice
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Most monasteries on Mt. Athos are not as extreme as Esphigmenou, but, as this article depicts, they do feel some trepidation in relation to unity and ecumenism. They don't want to think about it nor do they really care about it, but in personal holiness and efficacy of prayer for others, they are probably as close to the heavenly realm as one can get.
I think we should explain that the Esphigmenou monks are the ones being told to leave the monastery. The Patriarch has expelled them, and the Greek courts have also. Yet as we know, they continue to reside there; fighting with the new monks that are replacing them, and now, (or so I believe), want to take their case to Brussels. 
The other monastics, on a whole, do not accept other denominations as being true Christians. Some of the monks are Greeks, and have never been in contact with other Christian faiths. Some are Russian and Slavic, and others are converts that have grown to appreciate the austerity and spirituality of monasticism. 
There are many on Mt. Athos that are surely saintly, but others monks are anything but. As for the saintly bishop Maximus, (Bishop Athanasios of Cyrpus), he was quite frustrated. He felt he wasn't getting through to his interviewer, the author Markides, because of how he kept relating Orthodox spirituality with New Age concepts. Actually the Bishop prayed about it one night, and was informed by God that he should continue the discussions. 
I think it is a matter of time. The Church of Greece was the only Church that was adamantly against any talks with the Pope of Rome, and yet today, it is the one Church that is in the forefront of Eucumenism. 
Zenovia ][/font]
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That is why I am bringing up this point so that others do not get the wrong idea that the majority of the Orthodox faithful are comprised of "anti-Catholic" Protestant converts in this country, which are rather a very small minority. Nor are all former Protestants who are Orthodox anti-Catholic. Some are, some aren't.
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