www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall How Bad Things REALLY Are In Europe

Bishop slams end of term church services [thelocal.se]


I don't think you can call these organizations in Europe as "Churches".

Sweden? no surprise. a once great nation that now wallows in child porn can't be expected to honor what is good and proper in the eyes of the Lord.
Much Love,
Jonn

The Church is now increasingly separated from public life. In many ways, that is a good thing. It prevents persecution by the government and discrimination by groups of people, for example. But, when people divorce themselves from God --in their souls and in their nation's soul-- what will they have left but fallen Eden and the rule of Cain ?

-- John

Well it is no surprise that Sweden is an nation of wet pagans.
Stephanos I
Sadly the same may be said of Norway, Denmark and Iceland too.
They would be lucky if even 1% of the population still beleives.

FYI - He is a Lutheran not Catholic... but it wouldn't surprise me if here were Catholic I have heard that stuff coming out of Catholic mouths also.

The Nordic countries: Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, and Iceland are each at least 80% Lutheran.

But one can glean from their strikingly similar flags (emblazoned singly with The Holy Cross) that they were Catholic once!

I know well the situation in the Nordic lands having lived there 4 years a a layman and 4 years as a priest.
Please pray for a new evangelization of these countries.
Stephanos I

Now that's very interesting. Based upon your first-hand experience, (1) why have the people there abandoned their faith and (2) what would be necessary for them to return to the Christian faith ?

-- John

I think the Nordic peoples abandoned the Catholic faith and jump on the Lutheran wagon!

Like the Anglicans, they are still Christian although it could be said that they have diluted many Christian teachings!

John and Amado,

I think what we are seeing with the Lutherans and Anglicans is the true fruit of Protestantism and the only logical route that system can take. Apostolic Christianity is not founded on a dead letter, if I may refer to Holy Scripture as such in the hands of anyone and everyone who wants to twist the Word of God to his own destruction. We Catholics and Orthodox have the teachings of the Holy Fathers (Papal and Episcopal ) and the Ecumenical Councils to guide us in our interpretation and to fence us in when we stray from the Truth. Protestants have no guides, just individual interpretation.

Even in America we trust the Supreme Court to interpret the meaning of the Constitution, it is not every man for himself in regards to the Constitution. Yet, if all one needs is The Bible Alone, what did all the illiterate people do for the last 1974 years? How could they know what was necessary for salvation? It's like soon, there will be a new group claiming Sola Computera it is the same thing, Sola Scriptura only came about in full force with the invention of the printing press. (I know there were various whacko heretical groups claiming Sola Scriptura, but they were never really organized like the Lutherans, Calvinists, et. al.)

The Lutheran Church in the Scandanavian countries even have pastors who don't believe in the Divinity of Christ, and worse they even have atheist "pastors." (Wolves in Sheep's clothing anyone?) I could go on...

Dr. Eric:
I agree with what you're saying-but only to an extent. While it is certainly the case that many Protestants have nothing but individual interpretation, a whole host of Protestants have historically accepted the authority of at least the first two Ecumenical Councils-at least implicitly so in their recitation of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. Also, Anglicans have historically accepted the authority of all seven Ecumenical Councils. Lastly, I would add that there have always been Protestants who valued the teachings of the Church Fathers. I can also attest from my experience as a student at Duke University Divinity School from 2000-2005, the Church Fathers are presently held in very high esteem by at least some Protestants.
Ryan

I hate to be so simplistic but if we take the anaolgy of the vine and the branches, they have become cut off and for awhile they remained green and had some life in them but eventually they wither and die.
Stephanos I
PS Also when you attack authority within the Church we need to ask ourselves who and what will replace it?

What has caused them to abandon the faith? Well I think it just came with the enforcement of the Lutheran Reformation by the Danish Crown. There was little change in the outward ceremony, only a few that people could notice, the service in their own language, the priest could now marry and have a family, and the fasting laws relaxed or done away with completely. But that breach with Apostolic Christianity left them with an empty shell.
They could not give what they did not have.

Now as to what it would take is an awakening in people #1 that something went wrong in the attempt at reform #2 a renewed preaching of the faith and prayer life of the Church and #3 of course they would see the necesity of returning to their Mother.

Stephanos I

The Catholic evangelization of the Nordic lands was quite poor in my estimation - I believe the historical record demonstrates that quite clearly. There was never very active participation in the Apostolic Faith by most of the population. During the Reformation, the Nordic countries fell quickly - for domestic political/monarchical reasons, of course - and they adopted a lukewarm Lutheranism almost at once, with some Catholic vestiges to soothe the native population. The people returned to a pagan and then, in recent times, a secular humanist existence. Its sad. We must pray for them. Their "anything goes" mentality will be their undoing.

"In the old school we had morning prayer time, including both psalms and prayers. It was embarrassing," wrote Bishop of Uppsala Ragnar Persenius


The bishop is embarrassed to have prayed and sang the Psalms.

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven." Matthew 10:32-33