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Hi,
S'been a while. No, I don't have any stats and figures to back up my claim. I'll be more careful about that in the future; I certainly did not mean to ruffle feathers.

Ebed's observations about Bishop Kallistos do not surprise me at all. Both he and Bishop Athanasius (Cyprus, formerly Fr. Maximos) strike me as having the most Christian and most balanced about non Orthodox and even non Christians. I'm not surprised that Bishop Kallistos was stunned by the question.

I have to admit I feel just as negative at this point about Orthodox-Catholic reunion. The Athonite monks, with all due respect, really come of seeming like embittered anachronisms that have spent too much time away from the world. Again, I'm not saying that is the case, but if anyone were to read that statement who knew nothing about them is would be difficult to know that they're spiritual warriors.

Sunday I realized that there are ERiters who have no desire to unite with the Orthodox and get offended by all references to the Orthodox they like being distinct-Catholic with an Eastern mindset.(Wasn't there a BCC Bishop who refused the Orthodox offer to help with the DL reform? Why?) Are there many folks like that out there? Are the folks on this forum just a small minority?Why hasn't there been unity between ACROD and BCC at least? I'm beginning to think this reunion talk is a bunch of fluff.

Peace,
Indigo

Is it just me, or does there seem to be an inordinate amount of Orthodox Monasticism bashing by people whose total knowledge of Orthodox Monasticism would not fill a postage stamp? There are very few things that set me off, but this happens to top my list. Unless any of the holders of these "opinions" are prepared to go one on one with me, I suggest a calming of tone and stick to subject matters that you actually know something about. Anachronisms, my foot!

Alexandr, Orthodox Christian

Alexandr,

Who is bashing Orthodox Monasticism?

I think you are confused about what is at issue here...

Gordo

No I'm not confusing anything Gordo. The past page and a half has been nothing but cheap shots at the Holy Fathers for defending the Faith. Burn down my house, steal my horse, do what you want, and I'll forgive you. Attack the Garden of the Mother of God and this Cossack goes into overdrive. Upset does not adequately describe my state right now. Lest I be accused of being uncharitable, I will stop posting for the rest of the morning.

Alexandr

Alexandr,
If you read my post carefully I said that their statements paint them in a negative way. I didn't say they were anachronisms, just that those who know little about them could easily walk away with that impression.

Their blessed prayers probably have a lot to do with why this world is still turning at all.I heard that when the first Gulf War started that one of the Athonite monks secluded himself to pray nonstop for at least two days and possibly longer. No doubt there is nonstop prayer for the present Gulf War going on as we speak.

I beg to differ. Apart from my feeble attempt at humor with my "knitting" comment, I've seen no cheap shots.

They took it upon themselves to defend, as you say, their faith in a public manner by referring to Catholics and the Pope as heretics with whom true Orthodox cannot even so much engage in prayer. So as far as I am concerned, the fact that they are monastics does not place them above the fray when they have decidedly inserted themselves into the fray. That is not to say that we should somehow disrespect them - they are after all consecrated to God for prayers and service to His kingdom. And as I have indicated, I do believe in the holiness (and the learning) of many of the monastics on Mt Athos.

But I would not somehow be so easily offended as you have been should a Franciscan friar - or better yet, the heads of the various Franciscan Orders - have taken a similar stance and said "The Pope is wrong for praying with all those Orthodox schismatics and heretics!" and you, being a faithful Orthodox, expressed offense at these friars and the Order, indicating that they should follow their shepherd's guidance in Rome and continue their vocation of prayer and service to the Church.

In fact, I would defend you wholeheartedly, something you seem unwilling to do because you wholeheartedly agree with these monks from Mt. Athos and their statement. Not surprisingly, I do not and remain offended as I have every right to be. What you see as bold witness in this letter I see as a form of reactionary conservatism attempting to, as Father Anthony has said, "put the breaks" on things for a while. As I said before, we will have to just agree to disagree on this.

Gordo

Gordo,

Then I believe you need to spend time reading Orthodox monastic history. Your statement proves contrary to the history of Orthodox monasticism and its witness.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony,

Then, if you would, please show me where I am in error. I'm not asking for proof, only clarification.

If you only want to recommend sources, that is fine as well.

Thanks,

Gordon

Gordo,

You can begin with any number of books dealing with Orthodox monasticism. Orthodox monastics have a history of safeguarding the faith and speaking their witness. This is evident that in most cases that our hierarchs are still drawn from monastic ranks and just celibate ranks.

Now, since I am leaving for the day, and I find that as a moderator that thread is digressing into a polemical argument that I will not be able to monitor, I am going to close off this thread.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+