www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West East on Original Sin

Original Sin?
I don't think that any sin is original.
Much Love,
Jonn

Gordo,

With all due respect to Fr. Seraphim Rose, had he simply done a little research he would have discovered that St. Augustine's works were only translated into Greek in the 14th century, and that is why St. Augustine had very little influence on the theology of the Byzantine Church. Thus, before the 14th century Eastern theologians only had access to collections of Augustinian florilegia. Nevertheless, once St. Augustine's writings were translated into Greek, the rejection of much of what he had to say by Eastern theologians began immediately, because his thought on many issues (e.g., original sin, the Trinity, Christology, grace, predestination, etc.) does not conform to the teaching of the Orthodox Church. Now, this does not mean that St. Augustine is to be rejected as a saint, any more than St. Gregory of Nyssa is to be rejected as a saint because his views on apokatastasis may have gone too far in a universalist direction (although the exact nature of Nyssa's views on apokatastasis are open to scholarly debate).

With that in mind, I have no problem with saying that I disagree with St. Augustine on the nature of the Trinity, and that I reject his views on: (1) the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son, (2) his focus upon the unknowable divine essence over the triad of divine hypostaseis, (3) his teaching that humanity is a "mass of damnation," (4) his teaching on predestination, which involves a confusion of redemption with salvation, (5) his mild endorsement of a form of traducianism, (6) his espousal of the idea that the guilt of Adam's original sin is passed on to his descendants, just to name a few of the theological opinions he promoted during his lifetime, which sadly became -- in many cases -- the backbone of the entire Western tradition, as it focused its attention solely upon him, while ignoring not only the Eastern Fathers, but the majority of the Western Fathers.

Finally, I am sure that you will agree with me when I say that being a saint does not make everything ever written by a man de fide truth.

God bless,
Todd

P.S. - I recommend reading the little essay by Fr. Most on predestination, which highlights many of St. Augustine's errors on that particular issue.

Todd please explain your #2 and #5, especially the term traducianism.

I would also recommend Fr. Most's essay. It is very enlightening, I believe that he really has it on the money.

It explains why my wife is now a Catholic instead of an unbaptized "good person." (She doesn't like it when I use "pagan.")

Dear Dr. Eric:
Traducianism is the teaching that the human soul is transmitted to the child from his/her parents. This is in opposition to the accepted Christian teaching that each soul is newly created by God. For a fuller explanation, you might check out this link http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15014a.htm. As to Todd's reference to St. Augustine's "focus upon the unknowable divine essence over the triad of divine hypostaseis," I believe that he is making reference to a widely held belief that the Western tradition of Trinitarian theology, following the lead of St. Augustine, tends to start with the divine essence and then work from there to the three divine personae (I use this term because it is the Latin term used in the West), as opposed to the Eastern tradition, which tends to begin with the three divine hypostases (the Greek term used by the Eastern Fathers), before arriving at the one essence of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (this is consistent with the approach of St. Athanasius and the Cappadocian Fathers). The problem that can arise sometimes with the Western approach is that it can tend towards the heresy of Sabellianism, which claims that God is sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, and sometimes the Holy Spirit, as opposed to the true teaching that God is eternally Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In fairness to the West, many from that tradition acknowledge this potential weakness, while arguing that this emphasis on the divine essence complements the Eastern emphasis on the three divine hypostases, which, when not stated very carefully and without the Western complement, can tend towards the heresy of tritheism. I hope I've been helpful.
Ryan

Who gets to be Patriarch? I vote for either John Vernoski or Heyschios.

I could not agree less. This leads directly to the problem of Purgatory and the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary which are both absolutely none scriptural.

Our God is a loving God, not a God who send babies to Purgatory(which btw doesn't exist) .

Also Saint Augustine's teaching that all man have the NEED to commit sin, I could not agree with either.