www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Last Harry potter book

"Yay!"

ROD and TOD FLANDERS

Perhaps the demonic manifests itself differently in different ages according to the sitz im leben "life world" of the of the time. When Christ walked the earth, it was the normal understanding among Jews and many pagans that demons caused illness, storms, disasters, etc. We now know that is not the case. People with epilepsy have a certain neurological disorder, they are not possessed. We can also show the neurological causes of various kinds of mental illness such as schizophrenia.

But, where evil really works in an invisible and insidious manner, there you really have the presence of the demonic. Think of societal and economic structures of power that oppress and marginalize whole groups of people. Think about culture as a way in which people are robbed of their spiritual freedom by false values. To me, this is the demonic and it is not impersonal. After all, interpersonal structures precisely are personal. We call the demons and angels "powers" and "principalities." Paul calls them the powers of this world. It makes the most sense to me to see them as the various structures of death, i.e. "the culture of death," talked about by Pope John Paul II. All of this voodoo, trinkets, ouji boards, etc. have power only over those who believe in them. I refuse to pay attention to any of that kind of superstitious nonsense, and so there is nothing in them that has any power over me. The devil can only work on us where we have true fears and anxieties. The desert fathers of the early church saw the demonic working in us psychologically. That is where the devil works. God bless.

Joe

Is not this exactly the point of St. Anthony's teachings -- i.e., that the devil only has power over us through our fears?

Not entirely true, IMHO. How else does one explain the spiritual battles between the druids and Saint Patrick? And there are plenty of modern testimonies from those who have been involved in the occult to the effect that magic does exist (perhaps not in the forms we are accustomed to seeing in the media) and can be very powerful, although falling completely short of the power of God. I think the devil attempts to duplicate the charismatic manifestations of the Holy Spirit's work in the saints - levitation, reading thoughts, raising the dead, etc etc.. True involvement in magic offers the empty promises of anti-Christ: wealth, pleasure, power. It is man's attempt to sieze Eden by his own powers.

PrJ, the Emily Rose movie was truly a remarkable film on many levels. I agree - some teens (OLDER ONES) should watch it. (The true story actually occurred in Germany, BTW.) I also recommend Father Gabriel Amorth's "An Exorcist Tells His Story" published by Ignatius Press. He is one of the best known exorcists, and is in fact the official exorcist of Rome. He has said that his favorite film is "The Exorcist" because of its accuracy. Incidentally, he is also NOT a fan of Harry Potter.

Gordo

But there are accounts of demonic manifestations in physical form that actually harm the saints (Padre Pio being a contemporary example.) Of course, that does not mean that the devil has power over us. He does try to subject us to him by fearing him. I agree that the best defense is filial abandonment to divine love. As Padre Pio says, "Pray, hope and don't worry."

Coming back to Harry Potter, if the message of Harry Potter is "you need to learn how to practice white magic and harness it for good", then there is a problem. I guess I do not get that message in the text itself. The true undercurrent is the destruction of evil through virtue and self-kenosis.

Gordo

I would also mention that this is one of the reasons why I am very devoted to my Holy Angel. I have a copy of the Canon to My Guardian Angel which I try to pray on Monday's, because ofthe place of the Holy Angels in our weekly liturgical cycle. The cop I have actually gets into the Toll-House mythology, so I tend to skip over or slightly modify it in my prayers. My family and I also have a strong devotion to Archangel Michael.

God bless,

Gordo

The wizarding world in Harry Potter is clearly distinguished from the "Muggle" (ordinary) world. Humans can't see or enter the wizarding world and wizards are not to use magic when in the Muggle world (wizards being in the Muggle world being an anomalous situation in itself, in response to the evil dictator Lord Voldemort in the wizarding world). The wizards are not humans who learn magic, but are a different creature, just like the hippogriff, the giants, the unicorns, and the other magical creatures from the wizarding world. There is no chance that a "muggle" (human) child will become a wizard in the book. Of course, if a parent does not feel a child is able to clearly distinguish from fantasy and reality, the parent should carefully screen the child's book selections. These books do not make that task any harder for a parent to do.

I must say I disagree with your teacher, though. A good story is good for every age.

Rowling uses traditional imagery and symbolisms throughout the story. I believe there is an entire book out just about this angle. There is an unequivocal line of good and evil, and all the creatures of the wizarding world must eventually choose which side they stand with. There are consequences for making the wrong choice. Making the right decision is not always the easiest or most favorable thing, but it is always clear which decision is the good one and which is the bad, and it is always clear that the good decision is the right one to make. I think in this regard you would be pleasantly surprised should you ever decide to read them.

I'm sorry for the series of posts. So many have posted since I was last here that I wanted to respond to several.
Yes, this is true. He has a magic wand and says spells (which are in Latin). The same spells said by a muggle (a human) would not work.

The author agrees with you. It is well established in the book that there are 3 unforgivable curses. Each of them attempt to exert control over another creature. Any time one of these curses is used, it is clearly understood to be evil.

That is not the case. Any time he attempts to use magic for what he has selfishly decided is better, it is obvious that he has made a poor choice, and there are consequences for his decision. He acts with wise counsel from many others including professors, head masters, friends (adults and youth), adult family members of friends, his godfather, and others.

Speaking of which, the most affable family in the book is the Weasley family. A large family with a stay-at-home mother, they are strongly principled and always virtuous, despite the problems that causes with some who are more powerful or influential. Though they do not have much money, their house is a refuge for Harry because it is always full of love. The parents have high expectations of their children, are involved in their lives, worry about their futures, assign them chores, punish them when they mis-behave, and are all-around good people with a solid marriage.

On the other hand, the evil families, though mainly politically influential and monetarily successful, are shown to be based on fear and power. Though the reader is moved to pity them at rare times, he is in no way moved to feel empathy for them. It is always clear which side they are on and what their motives are. It is also clear that the reader therefore is against them.

The premise has always been a fight of good vs. evil. The good are expected to act in a good way, even when it isn't easy. There is no question that evil will be defeated (and is in every book), but the adventure is in finding out how that happens. There is no earth-worship or pagan godesses or other occultic practices. There is no chance that the reader would walk away hoping to exert control over others by joining the occult. In the rare circumstances where children or youth are inclined to such thinking, I would hope their parents would not allow them to read this series or any others like it. For the average child, I don't see this as a concern, though.

On the other hand, the increasing amount of touchy-feelyness in book 6 (a lot of time spent on kissing, dating, romantic jealousies, and reunitings) is something I think the parents should be more practically concerned with their children picking up.

I am not arguing in favor of the series, but just pointing out that the areas of concern you raise are really not areas that I would be concerned with. The books do a good job of clearly using classical symbolism to draw a line between good and evil, and to set the reader on the side of the good. The "magic" also consists of a wizard (who is not human) pointing a wand and saying a Latin word. The more powerful force running throughout is pure love, which it is said evil cannot understand and through which evil will be destroyed.

lol i forgot about that episode

"Okoeleedoekoelee.." - Neddy

Fictional tales with the classic good versus evil premise are normal across nearly every culture and are very popular in the English literature genre. Harry Potter is out of a similar mold. Orphan kid with evil guardians is whisked away into a new and exiting world where he makes good while facing trials and tribulations along the way. He's like "Pip" on a broomstick, in a way. Similarly, people in nearly every culure enjoy stories that are fanciful and include an element of things-that-may-go-bump-in-the-night - ghosts, goblins, witches in pointy hats, etc. etc.

Great points, Wondering!

Gordo

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