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(Does anyone have the actual text of the Kondrusiewicz statement??)

Russian Orthodox Church welcomes statement of Archbishop Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz

MOSCOW, March 22, 2001 (NTV) -- The Russian Orthodox church welcomes the declaration of the head of Russian Catholics, Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz, that criticized Greek Catholics who seized hundreds of Orthodox churches in western Ukraine at the beginning of the nineties. As noted on Thursday in an interview on the radio station "Echo of Moscow" by the chairman of the Department of External Church Relations of the Moscow patriarchate, Metropolitan Kirill, the words of Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz were "the first of this kind of statement," since hitherto the Vatican has never tried to condemn the action of Greek Catholics. According to the metropolitan, the Moscow patriarchate has turned its attention to this.

However Metropolitan Kirill did not agree with the archbishop that a meeting of Patriarch Alexis II with Roman Pope John Paul II conducted without appropriate preliminary steps on the part of the Vatican would lead to the resolution of the greatest problems in relations between the two churches. The metropolitan recalled that the Russian church and the Vatican have conducted negotiations for more than ten years now. Just as soon as the breaking up of Orthodox dioceses in western Ukraine began a quadrilateral commission was created comprising Orthodox of Ukraine, Greek Catholics, Moscow, and the Vatican. As a result, disputed churches were able to be shared in seven cases. However afterward, according to the metropolitan, Greek Catholics dropped out of the commission under the influence of the Ukrainian "Rukh" organization.

Metropolitan Kirill stressed that a meeting of Patriarch Alexis II with the Roman pope "should be a really historic event" and not just a ceremonial meeting. For this, in his words, "it is necessary to flip over the page of the millenium of division and to try to write a new page of our common history without blots and corrections."

The representative of the Moscow patriarchate called the religious conflict in western Ukraine "a challenge to all of European civilization." "We are deeply convinced that at the end of the twentieth century there cannot be at the center of Europe such massive violations of human rights and religious freedom," he said.

Dear RichC,

If Kondrusiewicz really said that and implied what we think he did, then he is really playing up to Moscow.

What do our Catholic participants in this Forum think about this statement?

Alex

Ohhhh, I don't think any harm exists in the Archbishop responding to the Russian Patriarch's comments about Ukraine by saying, "Yes, Your Holiness, I am sure things were done that were uncharitable and imperfect. Why don't you meet with John Paul and have a fuller discussion of these matters."

I guess my question for those who call for "independence" and "no interference" from the Vatican is do you really support the Ukrainian and Russian Catholics following their own desires unrestrained by Rome's ecumencial agenda?

I don't think I'm alone being skeptical about a Vatican representative's statement that is actually welcomed by the Moscow Patriarchate.

More data please!

Joy!

Dear Kurt,

If the Archbishop had said what YOU just said, I would have no trouble accepting it.

But he didn't.

Sorry, but only the Pope is infallible. Vatican politicians don't share in that charism.

Alex

[More data please]

Head of Russian Catholics blames Ukrainian Uniates for seizing Orthodox

churches, denies proselytizing



MOSCOW. March 22 (Interfax) - Senior Russian Catholic leader

Archbishop Tadeush Kondrusevich has criticized the conduct of the Uniates

(Greek-Catholics), who destroyed three Orthodox eparchies and seized

control over hundreds of Orthodox church buildings in western Ukraine in

the early 1990s.



A meeting between the Patriarch and the Pope will help to settle many

painful problems, Kondrusevich has told Interfax. "The sooner we start the

talks the better: A meeting of the two key world religious leaders is

necessary," he said.



Kondrusevich categorically rejected accusations against Catholic

Church for proselytizing in Russia. "There is no proselytism [sic] on our

part. Despite the rumors, we are not trying to win Russians over by

offering humanitarian aid. But if any people come to us and say they would

like to be Catholics, we cannot put them off for the sole reason of their

being Russian. That is the matter of free choice," he said.



The Vatican "does not seek any hegemony in Russia, which has half a

million Catholics at most, about 200 priests and only two Catholic

cathedrals in the capital," Kondrusevich said.

Well, I don't understand what's the big problem. It may be true that it is wrong for Ukrainian Catholics to take Orthodox Church buildings away from the Orthodox. But you all have to remember that during the Communist persecutions, the Orthodox Church stole and took over Ukrainian Catholic churches. Then it sent the Ukrainian Catholics to underground church. Even the Orthodox have killed so many Ukrainian Catholics (priests & religious included) for refusing to join the Russian Orthodox Church.

Since the so-called "fall" of communism, the status of both Catholic and Orthodox churches have changed. (I really don't believe there was a "fall" of communism to begin with...but that's a whole other forum). Now, the churches that the Ukrainian Catholics took back from the Orthodox are probably the ones that were previously owned by the Catholics!!!

Before we jump into conclusion about these accusations, we must have all the facts, because we don't have it all up in here. I would find that hard to believe that the Catholics would be just so plain mean to the Orthodox by taking over their churches, etc. for almost like no reason at all. THERE HAS TO BE A REASON...perhaps, like I said, they were previously owned by the Catholics prior to the Orthodox's attempt to DESTROY the Catholic churches with NO reservations and with fullest of intentions.

But I do believe that the Pope of Rome and the Russian Orthodox Patriarch SHOULD meet to somehow resolve these problems or any misunderstandings. We owe it to ourselves to have our church leaders meeting in our behalf.

Good day.

spdundas

Talk about trying to be fair-minded. Not to dismiss the Ukrainian Catholics� legitimate case in far southwestern Ukraine, but I like Archbishop Kondrusiewicz � his behavior is the exact opposite of Polish priests� treatment of Orthodox in Russia circa 1900.

What matter here is what is objectively right. Which is: 1) The Schism was wrong. 2) Creating the Eastern Catholic Churches at the Orthodox� expense a few centuries later was wrong. 3) The Soviets violently persecuting the Ukrainian Catholic Church and handing its churches over to the puppet Moscow Patriarchate in the 1940s was wrong. 4) The born and generational Ukrainian Catholics in the Zakarpats�ka oblast� (the only Ukrainian Catholic majority province in Ukraine) had a right to take back the churches the Soviets stole from them, which they did about 10 years ago. It�s a fait accompli and a kind of vigilante justice, whether the MP likes it or not. 5) Catholicism is not to solicit Orthodox, which is what Archbishop Kondrusiewicz is trying to honor.

Serge

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>

4) The born and generational Ukrainian Catholics in the Zakarpats�ka oblast� (the only Ukrainian Catholic majority province in Ukraine) had a right to take back the churches the Soviets stole from them, which they did about 10 years ago. It�s a fait accompli and a kind of vigilante justice, whether the MP likes it or not.

P.S. Mr Tallick has pointed out online that around 1989 or 1990 the Catholics agreed to settle the church-building conflict parish by parish by means of a vote. If the local Ukrainian Catholics did in fact renege on that, he and the MP have a legit complaint; Abp K is being a man of honor for facing it.

S

Dear Serge,

You are most fair-minded. I agree with you 100%.

I would vote for you to be the Patriarch of Kyiv.

Alex

It is my understanding that the Ukrainian Catholics are taking back Churches and property that was and rightfully is theirs. It is also my understanding from relatives over their and other parishioner's relatives that the common everyday person over there does not care one way or the other as long as they have a church to worship in. Some villages the changeing of ownership has been going terribly but that is in my oppinion the Bishop's doings. I think that there are Bishops on both sides Orthodox and Catholic who DO NOT want unity. They would be out of a job so to speak. This issue will go on troubled for quite some time. Let's just hope that when the Holy Father goes to Ukraine , that it is welcomed by so many that the Patriarch of Moscow will have to change his stance on this hot issue. There is something spiritually magical, so to speak, about Pope John Paul the 2nd that I think when he goes there this summer all will be well for everybody involved. The Ukrainian Catholic church here in the states has added a petition in the Liturgy for the Pope's safe visit to the Ukraine.

Dear Slava,

You are appropriately named! Slava!

Alex

Hi,

I forgot to add something to my earlier comments on this post.

I wanted to add that the Russian Orthodox is just as much of a victim of communism of Soviet Union as the Catholic Church (both Western and Eastern). Yes, Serge is right that during the cold war (esp. during '20s to '60s (or whatever dates, we don't know for sure), the Russian patriarchates are like puppets, fully manuplated and controlled by the communists. I've heard of such men who are communists "study" to be "priests" so they'd have control over the congregation, perhaps brainwashing them with communist trash.

It's no wonder why Russians still have lots of problems to this day. That is why I feel that communism is not fully dead in Russia. Perhaps, it's all a cover up. They say that Russia is "free" but really deep down inside, they are really communists. That is why I do not trust Russia.

I have an aunt who lived in Russia for 3 years (St. Petersburg), and she said for a while it was chaos!

May God bless Russia! Help and protect her, from the viles of evil ones. Let Russia re-discover the riches of Orthodoxy. Of course it's known that Pope John Paul II wants to help and encourage the Russians to discover their Orthodox faith, heritage and traditions. It's so sad that the Protestants are using evil tactics to convert the Orthodox to become Protestants, by probably decorating their church with Icons, etc. whatever the Russians relate to.

Let's pray to end all evil in Russia, USA and all over the world! Amen.

Dear spdundas,

What you say is true.

But I think we need to be charitable to those Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church who were often between a rock and a hard place.

Yes, they had to agree to close churches, when they needed to build more.

To what extent they were morally culpable under those difficult circumstances, only God may know.

I have an uncle who was a Russian Orthodox Priest in Ukraine during the Soviet period.

He came to visit us and stayed in the basement, in fear. He was a Doctor of Theology from the Moscow Academy and otherwise well educated, but he was very much afraid of coming too close to us Byzantine Catholics.

He came from a Byzantine Catholic family and is today a Catholic Priest.

But then he told me, "I don't teach that the Pope is or is not the visible head of the Church. I teach that one must look out for one's own head!"

But when the moment of liberation came, he joined hundreds of other Orthodox priests in singing "Many Years" for the Pope and so began the return to the Ukrainian CAtholic Church. There has been nastiness associated with that, but there were some good moments for those who felt they were casting off a yoke of sorts.

Alex