www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Latin Apostolic Admin of Russia condemns Greek Catholics?

Even if the "Orthodox in communion with Wittenberg" (Ukrainian - Slovak Lutherans of the Byzantine Rite), are heretical around the edges, they serve God's purpose by reaching those who are alienated from Catholicism and Orthodoxy, which they associate with contention and the suppression of freedom of religion,etc.


"Wherever two or three are gathered in my Name, there am I, in the midst of them."


No Pope or Patriarch is needed to gather as a community, in COMMUNION with Christ our great high-priest and prophet. And no priest is needed to celebrate the Holy Thanksgiving and partake of the Body and Blood of our Lord.

"And no priest is needed to celebrate the Holy Thanksgiving and partake of the Body and Blood of our Lord."

According to whom, may I ask? I think that both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy teach otherwise. It appears that you are criticizing that view. I'd be interested in the basis for that (other than the Gospel quoted above, which was never taken by the Church to exclude the necessity of clergy for sacramental rites). Thanks for your thoughts.

Brendan

Dear TwoGather,

Thank you for your post.

Would you know of this group's website address, if there is one?

Thank you, once again.

Alex

According to whom?


Why, St.Paul!

And....?

Brendan

Orthodox Catholic,

Here is a wonderful and comprehensive site on the "Third Byzantine Patrimony:"

www.angelfire.com/ca4/saintsophiaseminary/ulc.html [angelfire.com]


and you might want to try:

www.google.com [google.com]

Dear Friend,

Thank you for this gift, thank you very much indeed!

The Orthodox Cross on Luther's seal is very beautiful!

Here I stand . . .

Alex

Seems the premise of this discussion is faulty:

----

Russian News Agency Hit for Distorting Interview
Interfax Altered Kondrusiewicz�s Comments

MOSCOW, MAR. 30, 2001
<http://www.zenit.org>(Zenit.org<http://www.zenit.org>).- A news agency deliberately altered a Catholic leader's comments in a recent interview, in what the bishops' conference calls a clear sign that the Russian media are untrustworthy.

An official statement of the Russian Catholic bishops' conference affirms that Archbishop Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz, apostolic administrator of Catholics in Northern European Russia, was unfairly treated by the Interfax agency.

In the interview, some excerpts of which were published by ZENIT on March 23, Moscow's Catholic archbishop was referring to violent incidents which occurred in Ukraine in the early 1990s, especially in the Lvov Diocese. That is when, in keeping with the law, Greek-Catholics began to recover some of the temples expropriated by Stalin in 1944 and handed over to the Orthodox Church.

The archbishop complained that his comments were altered by Interfax agency in its news account.

The archbishop condemned "violent methods as a means of re-establishing historical justice." But he never blamed those acts of violence on Greek-Catholics.

In fact, he contended, Interfax censured even more important words, as he had said: "Similar controversies [between Greek-Catholics and Orthodox] must be resolved in Ukraine; on the contrary, categoric affirmations of people living abroad, in Russia, Poland, Italy, only aggravate the situation. In particular, I feel authorized to judge this, as I don't live in Ukraine, and I have not been there for a long time."

The archbishop denied having said that "at the beginning of the '90s, the Greek-Catholics destroyed three dioceses in Western Ukraine, taking possession of hundreds of Orthodox churches."

This "highly emotional" affirmation "seems obvious to Interfax's correspondent, as it is widespread in Russia, but I do not share it," Archbishop Kondrusiewicz said.

ZE01033021

Who else?

How about the apostles, including Peter, who spoke of the Royal Priesthood of all believers?

For more articles on Archbishop Tadeusz Kondrusiewicz being misquoted, click on to the following link:
www.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/0103f.html#25 [stetson.edu]

Here goes the Heresy of Ecumencialism. A belief that one's religion is just as good as another. I bet that some of you believe that the false religions are just as good as Christian faith? I wouldn't be suprised. Oh boy. So that means you are committing heresy in 2001 A.D.!

Dundas, I'm not sure what you meant by 'ecumenicalism'. Although I firmly believe that our Church(es) represent the fullness of God's will for humankind, I have a serious problem with the idea that God's will for those outside the faith is within our purview.

From my reading of the Gospels, it seems to me that Christ welcomed everyone who approached Him, including the 'unclean' Samaritan woman, Mary of Magdala (I LOVE that woman!) and even the tax-collectors and other 'outcasts'.

It seems to me that the major sin to which our Christian Churches are subject is that of pride -- believing that we and we alone have God's ear. For me, I think it's important that we talk with any person of good will. While some may interpret that as giving up on the 'truths of the faith', I see it rather as following Christ's example of welcoming every soul who seeks Him. Can we, His followers, do less than the Master did?

When pressed on the issue, He said clearly that we are obligated to both love God and to love our neighbors as well as we would love ourselves.

Condemnations of 'ecumenicalism' seem to me to be a retreat into the fortress of our perceived truths, with the concomitant effect of forcing people to remain outside the community of the elect. This hurts my soul because it appears to be a condemnation of the will of Christ.

We MUST -- absolutely MUST -- be welcoming of anyone, whether their beliefs conincide with ours or not. This is not a subversion of the treasury of the faith, but rather an attempt to make sure that anyone of good will can work with us towards our common and mutual salvation.

As cradle Byzantine Catholics, we have seen the horrors worked upon God's people by virtue of the "we have the truth and you don't" perspective. Perhaps because of these experiences, we are more 'tolerant' of those in other Christian communities.

The Roman Church has a front door through which neophytes enter; we Byzantines have a front door, but we also have a side door through which folks can enter. For this side-door, I am very grateful.

Blessings!

Here goes the heresy of ecumenicalism. A belief that one's religion is just as good as another.

Its name is indifferentism and yes, it is a heresy.

Serge

<A HREF="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</A>

Dear Dr. John,

Thank you for your post.

I used to believe that the only true believers in the world were myself and my brother, and sometimes I wasn't too sure about my brother!

So I guess my point is that we shouldn't be too much in haste to hurl excommunications against one another.

Unless, of coure, it simply can't be helped . . .

Alex

Dear TwoGather,

I have had an opportunity to review the sites on the Ukrainian Lutheran Church.

I have some heart-felt misgivings about their use of Icons and Eastern liturgical language and style when their own theological context is quite divorced from them.

I have Lutheran friends who are High Church, who venerate Saints, say the Rosary etc. but who would probably be at theological loggerheads with these communities.

You referred to them as "Orthodox in communion with Wittenberg."

Can we, and I am only raising the question, truthfully refer to them as "Orthodox" in a way that is historically meaningful?

They are Christians, to be sure. But does the use of icons and some other ritual elements taken from the Byzantine Rite make them Orthodox? Would they even agree with the theology that produced the Icon or the Divine Liturgy?

Your servant in Christ,

Alex