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There was a controversy some time ago about whether or not one of the OCA prayers includes a commemoration of Saint Josaphat. Our own dear Father Serge indicated that he had PROOF that such a commemoration existed.
I just wanted to mention, having visited Father this past week in Dublin, that I can now verify that I have seen it with my own two beady eyes.
It DOES in fact exist.
And as I have a devotion to good Saint Josaphat, and have personally venerated his incorrupt relics in Rome, it does my heart good to know that the holiness of the saints of God can transcend all jurisdictional boundaries.
Peace!
Gordo
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I think proof needs to be posted that this is indeed the case.
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Which Saint Josaphat are you talking about??????
We Orthodox venerate a number of Orthodox saints named Josaphat,
but we do not venerate any Catholic saints named Josaphat.
Perhaps you are mistaken.
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Which Saint Josaphat are you talking about??????
We Orthodox venerate a number of Orthodox saints named Josaphat,
but we do not venerate any Catholic saints named Josaphat.
Perhaps you are mistaken.
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They mean Josaphat Kuncevyc.
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Well - what about the testimony of two witnesses? (Numbers 35:30, Duet. 17:6, 19:1) Seems that such a thing is sufficient according to divine revelation.  Miller, Here is a Wikipedia article on his life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josaphat_KuncevycGordo
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I believe you saw something. I want to know who/what/where. That way I would know that the OCA itself has added this commemoration, and that it isn't some individual in the OCA who of their own volition has added such a prayer. There's a difference.
The lack of willingness to share the source leads me to believe it's the latter, given the unwillingness to divulge more information.
There is no entry or prayer for the person in question on the publicly accessible OCA calendar.
Last edited by AMM; 02/16/07 09:14 PM.
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I believe you saw something. I want to know who/what/where. That way I would know that the OCA itself has added this commemoration, and that it isn't some individual in the OCA who of their own volition has added such a prayer. There's a difference.
The lack of willingness to share the source leads me to believe it's the latter, given the unwillingness to divulge more information.
There is no entry or prayer for the person in question on the publicly accessible OCA calendar. True enough, Andrew. But the document was official, and I can certainly testify to that. As to precisely HOW it got there or WHO put it there, I have no idea whatsoever. Blessings, Gordo
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Then simply say who approved it and where it was put.
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I read recently in One Magazine that the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church has Byzantine Catholic martyr -bishops, Romzha, Hopko and Godjich on their calendar (or it might only be 2 of the 3, I can't remember).
So it has happened that Orthodox have recognized Catholic saints in at least one instance.
Blessings,
Lance
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Orthodox Catholic Toddler Member
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True enough, Andrew. But the document was official, and I can certainly testify to that. As to precisely HOW it got there or WHO put it there, I have no idea whatsoever.
Blessings,
Gordo Hello Gordo, Please tell us what office produced the document, who signed it etcetera. I presume that if it is an OCA document, it is after the Tomos of Autocephaly granted sometime in 1970 AD. So it would be a very recently decided case. I am not disputing the fact that you saw this, but if it is an official act it affects all Orthodox members of that church, and probably has a place on the calendar. So I would appreciate any additional information that I may do my own study of the matter. Thanks, Michael
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I read recently in One Magazine that the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church has Byzantine Catholic martyr -bishops, Romzha, Hopko and Godjich on their calendar (or it might only be 2 of the 3, I can't remember).
So it has happened that Orthodox have recognized Catholic saints in at least one instance.
Blessings,
Lance That explains the story I heard of an ACROD parish I know was going to paint icons of Greek Catholic saints. The iconographer however, refused to proceed. Michael
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I read the One Magazine article when it was posted, but so far that is the only source I've seen for that story. I don't recall seeing an announcement in the Messenger and nothing is printed in our parish calendar. They may have been added to the synaxis and it wasn't communicated out widely though. In church we have this icon which is used on the feast day for the saints of Carpatho-Rus - http://www.comeandseeicons.com/groups/cap05.htmIt lists the following on the Synaxis: Holy Father & Confessor Alexis of Hust Holy Martyr Ludmilla Holy Martyr Maxim of Gorlice Holy Father & Confessor Alexis of Wilkes-Barre St. Rostislavy Prince of Moravia St. Ephrem of New Torzhok Holy Martyr Wenceslaus St. Procopius Abbot of Sazava St. Moses the Hungarian Holy Hieromartyr Gorazd of Prague St. Cyril Equal to the Apostles St. Methodius Equal to the Apostles Back to the subject at hand. The only thing I can find from the OCA that is publicly accessible is this: Archbishop Josaphat Kuntzevich of Polotzk "persecuted the Orthodox people with particular severity. Leo Sapega, chancellor of Lithuania, strongly warned Kuntzevich of the danger of his conduct in his letter of March 12, 1622. '�Your Sanctity assumes that you are permitted to despoil schismatics and cut off their heads; the Gospel teaches the contrary. The 'Unia' has not produced joy, but only discord, quarrel and disturbances. It would have been better if it had never taken place. Now I inform you that, by the King's command, the churches must be opened and restored to the Orthodox, that they may perform divine service. We do not prohibit Jews and Mohammedans from having their places of worship, and yet you are closing up Christian temples.' Kuntezevich did not pay attention to this letter, pursuing his career of oppression until the inhabitants of Vitebsk rose against him and killed him on July 12, 1628 by throwing him into the river Dvina. The Roman Catholic Church canonized him in 1867�" (Toth, Alexis, Archpriest Alexis Toth: Letters, Articles, Papers and Sermons, vol. 1, Ed. & tr. George Soldatow. Chilliwack, British Columbia, Synaxis Press, 1978; p. 71 n84.) On the home site of St. Nicholas Church (OCA) in billings Montana.
Last edited by AMM; 02/16/07 09:48 PM.
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Michael,
Truth be told, I cannot recall all of those details (nor, unfortunately, did I think to look). What I saw was done as an official document of the OCA according to its branding - that much I do remember. But I would not be able to even tell you how to find it.
I guess that does not make me much of an "expert witness", only an "eye witness"! So sorry I cannot be of more help!
God bless,
Gordo
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Miller tells us that "We Orthodox venerate a number of Orthodox saints named Josaphat". How nice. May i impose upon you to name a few of these Orthodox Saints named Josaphat? I have just looked in Bulgakov and no such name is listed.
When I was first challenged on this matter - on a thread which has been closed (and not at my request nor on my suggestion), I responded that I would be glad to produce the proof to someone whom I knew and trusted but I was absolutely unwilling to make that information general knowledge, because the Committee on Un-Orthodox Activities would immediately remove the name and the members of the committee would swear the source never existed.
As Gordo has kindly witnessed, I have lived up to my promise and produced the proof. To those who find that frightening, I offer my sympathy and also the famous remark of the yokel who saw a rhinocerous and immediately said "there ain't no sech animal"!
I've seen the proof (in fact I have it) and Gordo has seen it. We are neither a pair of idiots, nor a pair of liars.
Fr. Serge
Last edited by Serge Keleher; 02/16/07 11:27 PM. Reason: syntax
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