www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Summer '03 Greek Catholic pilgrimages in the Old Country

Dear Administrator,

Since you mentioned Protestants, I thought I should give my two cents' worth here .

Zoghby's position is truly the IDEAL one that all Eastern Catholics should aspire to, if they don't already hold to it.

One of the truly great blessings of this Forum is that it has allowed us the opportunity to see how our own Eastern theological and liturgical heritage reaffirm one another in maintaining the Apostolic faith of the first 1,000 years.

It has also allowed us to see how later RC doctrines have only reaffirmed in their own Particular way (yes, that was a pun if you were wondering ) what the united Church of the first millennium has always believed - thereby making acceptance of such definitions unnecessary for the East.

Even in the realm of papal jurisdiction, it is a fact that the Particular and Patriarchal traditions of church government in the East take "first place" with the Papacy second - and that only when an Eastern Church is in trouble or otherwise asks for intervention.

The "domination" of our Churches by Rome in the past and present is the primary fault not of Rome itself, but of our own church authorities who may always stand fast with their flocks in saying back to Rome, on jurisdictional issues, "We don't need a priest to tell us that Sunday is a holy-day."

Or else, how do you say "get lost" in Latin?

I've just made a weekend project for myself.

Alex

and what about the guitar?

Dear Mexican,

I play the piano!

Alex

On the topic of the Basilian English Trebnik...

A few years back, then-Archbishop, now-Metropolitan Herman came and blessed my church's hall. And what book did he use for the prayer? The Basilian Trebnik! Go figure!

I rather like the practical size and inclusive content of the Basilian Edition. It is not complete, but for those more frequent blessings it is very practical. The 4-volume St. Tikhon's set is nice, but more of a liturgical reference book than anything else. I don't like the Latinized stuff in the Basilian book, and there is a fair amount of it, but it can easily be "purged" so to speak. :p Perhaps a revised edition could be made?

Dave

The Basilians have their own homemade eastern/western tradition and it seems that it changes constantly as well, depending exclusively on their feeling of things.(Usually western)
Whenever I have the courage to read something published by the Basilians, I ask someone first to strap me down on a chair with my mouth gagged so that I don't hurt anyone nor say something that someone shouldn't hear. After my rage is over I signal for someone to unstrap me.
I'll make you guys an offer.
I have two Basilian trebnyks that I'd like to trade for one Studite trebnyk.
What about it? Anyone interested?
Lauro

I think an English translation of the Studite Trebnik would be a great one-volume, very portable version much more faithful to the original Slavonic trebnik than the Basilian Euchologion.

If it takes too long for Svichado perhaps Andrij and I will do our own English translation of the Studite Trebnik and submit it for ecclesiastical approval.

Sorry, Lauro, no takers here. Nichoho novoho.

Hey, even before you get it approved, send me a copy. I'll trade you an icon or something.

Dave

Dear Lauro,

You sound like my uncle who attended a Basilian parish named for St Basil because his name was "Basil."

He too had to control his outbursts at "Basilian renovationism."

He later left . . .

It is rather interesting that the Basilian Order considers itself to be under the Pope directly and not immediately answerable to the local Bishop.

If that is actually the case, which I think it is, then this is a further violation of the Union of Brest-Litovske.

Alex

Dear Alex,
What you say seems to be true. I also believe that they (OSBM) only follow what Rome determines and nothing else, and as you said it would be a violation to the Union of Brest-Litovsk.
If you want to talk about OSBM violations, there would be a pretty good number to talk about and I'm not talking about traffic violations either, although that too could be included.
Lauro

Robert,

Check your Hapgood and other sources, there is no profession of faith at the setting-apart of a Reader or the Ordination of a Subdeacon.

Tony

Tha's right there doesn't seems to be any Roman Insertions, in the basilian trebnyk, until the Order of Presbyterate up to the Consecration of a Bishop. In the Third Confession of Faith in the Orthodox ala Hapgood Rite of Consecration of Bishops has the bishop make a statement to defend the Orthodox Faith, but it in no way nearly approach all the things a Byzantine Catholic Bishop-elect must affirm. It seems the Basilian Trebnyk has a great number of Roman additions to the Three Confessions of Faith that must be taken, not to mention all the other ritual accrutiments!This topic is one of great interest to me. I heartily enjoy it! Liturgical matters are always great issues to discuss.

In Christ,

Robert

Perhaps. So are Greek Catholic pilgrimages in the Old Country -- oh, wait, that must have been some other thread. My mistake! :rolleyes:

Lemko,

Why is there an otpust to L'utina/Ljucina? What's the story behind it? And why do the Orthodox hold a pilgrimage as well?

Dave

:rolleyes:

Saint Nicholas appeared to a village girl in the 1800s. He commanded her to have a chapel built on the spot where he appeared. However, this place acquired a Marian character--I'm not sure how, but there is an icon in the chapel "Our Lady of Ljucina" (it's in a photo on the Presov Eparchy website odpust photo album) and I think there is a spring whose waters have been the conduit for many miraculous healings over the years. In fact, Ljucina is known as "the Lourdes of Slovakia".

The Ljucina odpust became the largest one for Greek Catholics in east Slovakia. When the G.C. Church was liquidated in 1950, the pilgrimage considered under the auspices of the Orthodox Church. Today
both Churches continue to have odpusts there, usually in conjunction with the Dormition.

This was all written up in the New Rusyn Times about 2-3 years ago. You don't get it? Tsk, tsk... :p