www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Soul after death: Trials of the Toll Houses

Can any one speak on the subject of teachings of St Basil the New and the Blessed Theodora, about the Trials of the Toll Houses.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH not another toll house issue ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Uh-Oh



Did I just open up a can of worms?

Orthodox Pyrohy is Carptho-Rusyn and as such knows only about Toll House Cookies, I believe.

As a Carpatho-Rusyn myself, I have no idea either. Though I've heard the Russians kind of talk about them.

Don't worry, knowing my brother Pyrohy, his post will soon read:

Why DOES he edit all his posts?

Stream of consciousness posting... do I need to change my name to

Orthodox domilsean

?

Christ is Risen! Xpectoc Bockpec!

Please just look up the writings of Bishop Lev Puhalo on the subject and decide for yourself Borislav.
Let's just not discuss it here please.

Dear Subdeacon Borislav,

Christos voskrese! Voistinu voskrese!

The question regarding toll houses does at times become very heated. In my opinion, since no one really knows what occurs in the afterlife, all the view points may contain some form of validity. I read(a few times), and thoroughly enjoyed, Fr. Seraphim Rose's book on "The Soul After Death". In the book, the concept of toll houses is developed with the potential concepts of what can occur at each level [akin to Dante's levels of hell].

While there has been much dismissal of the toll house concept, our traditions and beliefs that I have encountered within the Eastern Theological world lends support to this concept.

Case in point, the 3rd day memorial, the 9th or 10th day (depending on tradition) memorial, and most importantly, the 40th day memorial. Now, whether these traditions lent thought to the toll house theory, or the toll house theory lent the institution of these traditions makes for good conversation.

Western theology has promoted the concept of purgatory, and the toll house concept could be viewed as an Eastern version of purgatory, without calling it such.

Our diversity appears to be our unity at times.

In Christ,

Michael

OK, please, let's not go down this road. Borislav, the concept of ariel tollhouses is an allegorical tool that some pious people use to further their spiritual progress. It is not Dogma anywhere in the Church. More words have been written regarding this particular allegory on internet lists than all other subjects combined. If you utilize them fine, if you don't, that's cool too. It's like discussing politics with your in laws - - - nobody wins.

On a side note, I must caution anyone against reading the writings of defrocked deacon Lev Puhao/Ron Haler. One would do much better to stick to Orthodox sources.

Alexandr

Yes you need to do so. I'll create a petition thread for you to do it if you don't

Tollhouse cookie dough is good just out of the tube.

Amen!

Yesterday, at work, I had a conversation with a co-worker who is from Bulgaria. She is reading a book from an English or American woman, that was translated into Bulgarian. I cannot remember the woman's name but it is something similar to Evelyn White? although googling does not help me find the book. The book is about a history of The Church, with no dates, but instead using centuries as mile markers. Apparently, the book is extremely critical of the Catholic and Orthodox Church.

In our conversation, the co-worker states that she does not believe in the Saints, and that to do that is idolatry. She went further to state she is now proudly a protestant.

I asked her is she ever asked someone to pray for her, or vice versa. She said yes. I then asked, why can we not ask a Saint to intercede on our behalf to God. She said they no longer exist. They are only bones and dust in the ground.

I asked her, what happens to the person when they die. She said the spirit of the body goes back to God and becomes a part of the overall essence of God and loses it distinctive persona. (these are my words, not hers but it did sum up her thoughts). Now in this conversation, she has stated that she has read the Holy Bible in total. I then reminded her of the Revelation of St. John and that in the vision, it is revealed that we would be bodily resurrected with our spirits intact. If God absorbed the spirit of the person, then how could God restore the individual spirit back to the resurrected body? Does He have like a little marker identifying the portion of the total essence as belonging to the person?

She said it would just happen. I told her this does not seem logical and that we retain our uniqueness within the presence of God, awaiting the final resurrection. That is why it is appropriate to ask a Saint for intercession before God.

I am very surprised on how she is down on the Church. She said she was raised Orthodox in Bulgaria, but it is all garbage and wrong.

Does anyone have any thoughts on helping her find her way back to the fullness of the Church?

Thank you.

In Christ,

Michael

Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on the false prophetess and foundress of the Seventh Day Adventist cult:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_G._White

RE: defrocked deacon Lev Puhao/Ron Haler. One would do much better to stick to Orthodox sources.

Archbishop Lazar (formerly Deacon Puhalo) is a Bishop in good-standing in the Orthodox Church in America. This is from the OCA website:

Biography: Not Available
The Most Reverend Lazar
Former Archbishop of Ottawa
37323 Hawkins Pickle Rd.
Dewdney, BC
Canada V0M1H0

Office: 604-826-9336
Fax: 604-820-9758

Consecration Date: September 28, 1990
Nameday: November 25
Biography: Not Available