www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Pope warns Catholic politicians who back abortion

If I were to equate abortion with war, I would have to become a pacifist as well as being pro-life.

I cannot be a pacifist. My freedom is protected by men and women who are trained and equipped to destroy things and kill people who would take away the freedom that I and all else who live in my county have - given to us by God, and not by any civil authority.

Just as I have the legal right - and the obligation under the CCC to defend my family, using lethal force if necessary, and only if necessary, so too does the government - the people elected to office by the people and charged with the faithful execution of the laws of the land - have the obligation to use such force as necessary to defend the citizens of the nation.

Lance,

This comes down to the Just War Doctrine (or teaching, whatever.)

In this case, the theologians have determined that it is the King, Emperor, Prime Minister, President, etc... who has the authority in determining whether or not the War is Just.

God Bless You,

Dr. Eric

Lance,

I haven't agreed with everything that our president has done. But the theologians did write it was the ruler who had the authority to determine a just war.

Having written what I just wrote, I admit when they formulated the doctrine/theory the rulers were Kings with the Diving Right of Kings. So maybe only a Hapsburg, a Bourbon, a Romanov, a Grimaldi, etc... can truly decide. I don't know.

And for the record, those politicians should be excommunicated. It's about time the dog's bark got some bite!

As regards pro-abortion Catholic politicians, especially those who are elected and hold positions of power and ascendancy, I think Rome has clarified (although belatedly) that they incur excommunication latae sententiae, i.e., automatic excommunication.

Hence, there is no need for the Bishop/local ordinary to pronounce officially or publicly their excommunication.

What U.S. Catholic Bishops (and Mexico City's Bishop) have done is to issue the warning to these politicians not to present themselves for Holy Communion as the celebrating priests (presumed to heed their Bishop's warning) would deny them the eucharist.

There is no guarantee really that this automatic excommunication can be enforceable across the board.

Hi Amadeus,


Has this been clarified? Is it in Canon Law that these actions incur excommunication latae sententiae? I know "successfully" procuring an abortion does, but that is a specifically enumerated act in Canon Law, whereas the actions of legislators is somewhat removed. Unless Rome or a Bishop has clarified this, I'm still a bit mystified.


This is the action prescribed by Canon 915. But it applies to those already under excommunication or interdict, as well as "alii in manifesto gravi peccato obstinate perseverantes" (others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin). I think it is this latter call (to be made by the Bishop of the Diocese) that the Pope may have been referring to.


Again, true if it is an act subject to automatic excommunication, and if not, it will depend on the judgment of the local Bishop.

While fielding questions from reporters, the Mexican cardinal explained that while nobody has sent a declaration to any politician or lawmaker, it must be stated that we also have to repeat what the traditional doctrine of the Church is: Voting for those kinds of laws is not compatible with the reception of Communion, which is not the same as excommunication.

We are saying that this way of thinking is not compatible with Eucharistic Communion, we are not going to deny them the Eucharist. Every human being can have the forgiveness of the Church and of God when there is repentance, the cardinal explained.

In the interview, Cardinal Bertone also commented on Pope Benedict's recent remarks to reporters about the possible excommunication of Catholic politicians who support legislation to make abortion legal.

"It seems clear to me that the pope recalled that it is up to individual bishops to establish whether and when to impose excommunication," Cardinal Bertone said.

The cardinal added that in the case of Catholic politicians, such a penalty would be carried out "ferendae sententiae" -- imposed by the judgment of a church court or authority -- rather than automatically incurred.

Cardinal Bertone was apparently distinguishing the situation of Catholic politicians from that of people directly involved in procuring abortion, for which the penalty is automatic excommunication.

The pope, when asked if he agreed with the excommunication of Catholic legislators in Mexico who had supported a law legalizing abortion, said yes and added that church law foresaw such a penalty.

The Vatican issued a toned-down transcript of the pope's remarks the next day, changing some of his words. In the interview, Cardinal Bertone defended the practice of modifying the "official" version of papal remarks.

"There's nothing scandalous in this," Cardinal Bertone said. He compared it to the publication of the "editio typica," or definitive edition, of papal documents, which he said is sometimes changed to be more precise than an earlier version.

Cardinal Bertone's office routinely modifies the texts of extemporaneous papal comments, Vatican officials have said.