www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings How we got the Bible

Elijamaria, I agree with you. Really; I do.

But the topic of this thread got me thinking. Spong made some observations about the intertwinning between Scriptrue and worship that even some Catholic scholars tend to ignore. yes spong's radical conclusions are faulty (my personal belief) but his questions are exciting. I threw out his "theory" for fun in order to keep from going into textual criticism and source theories. Imagine- the wild idea thatthe Bible came from the need for worship! Isn't this radical!?

Edde

No. It is Catholic. It is Orthodox.

Mary

Latin rite daily masses around here are full of people. Noon masses especially. People go to mass on their lunch hour. Also the readings in the Latin rite are arranged in a three year cycle A,B,C so that each day is different, in the main, for three years and then the cycle repeats itself.

Eastern Catholics and Orthodox do not always have access to daily liturgies but they very often pray some form of the hours daily and the readings for the day are available to them in that way.

Also check out the site:

http://www.dynamispublications.org/

These are top-shelf evangelical tools. I get one in my mailbox daily. There are thousands of subscribers and those who receive the print versions.

You really ought to be more aware of the people that you are speaking to and about, rather than presuming that you know.

Mary

That's why i have you to answer my questions. you don't mind explaining, do you?

How do byzcaths and orthodox hear the Word of God in church during the weekdays when they are at work or school?

A forum is a place to ask questions and discuss topics. You might think I "presume" (I don't) but you seem to "assume" that everyone thta posts here must know everything first. Is my knowledge of the Eastern Churches a prerequisite for posting here? What ever happened to shareing your faith with those who want to know? I have it hard to imagine that Catholics and Orthodox are typically people who chide people away from their churches because their guests come without knowledge. For you, I will make sure I know everything there is to know about your church (and then some) before I step foot into your church - presumptions and assumptions aside.

I really hope catholic and orthodox Christians don't treat all there guests like this. If so I would certainly notcome back to your church. i would think itis inhospitable and uncharitable. it is no wonder why Jesus welcomed the children, however ignorant they were of the Torah like the learned Scribes and Pharisees.

Eddie

I was referring to the radicalness of the idea within scholarly opinion which really doesn't believe in anything.

Have a nice day.

Eddie

Anyone who reads your posts can see what you do and the way that you do it. Right now we are at the phase called intimidation-by-guilt. Forget it.

When people seriously want to know something they ask. They come humbly and ask. They don't declare and then say 'oh...I was jest askin'!" when somebody objects to the implications, the outright assertion or the inuendo.

Go try to shame somebody else Mr. Hash. I've spent too many years bringing people into the Church. I have learned the difference between genuine interest and sly accusation. Nobody has time for those kinds of intricacies.

Weren't you the one who just told me that you know so much that you can be mistakenly thought to belong to any number of Christian churches...including the Catholic Church? And now you tell me 'ohohoh...I don't know.'

Now if you wish to speak substantivey to us here. Fine. Otherwise I have nothing more to say to you.

I beg the forgiveness of the memebers of the Forum if I have caused any distress.

Mary

May God bless you Elijamaria (Mary).
Eddie

Thank you, Mr. Hash, may His mercy be abundant in your life as well.

Mary

Mary,

Dr. Eric asked what the forum thought. I gave my two cents. Whether my replies have been considered humble enough is of no bearing on my replies. Dr. Eric's initial post was open-ended. What do you think? This can be answered in many ways. I only attempted to answer it with my own thoughts. The topic is about "How we got the Bible" Is there a right answer, Mary? If someone asked if they liked pizza with sausage and pepperoni on it and I answered "no" - would that be an acceptable answer?

I respect your faith Mary. I never asked you to walk away from it. I don't buy the accusations from Chick publicatios either. So you won't hear them from me.

This is the world of ideas. People share their ideas from different walks of life. You have your ideas; I have mine. Together we can discuss them openly and freely. Take a good look at the forums here. Many posters comment about everything written, said, done, believed and questioned under the sun. Debate happens. There is even a forum just for the Revised liturgy! If what I write is taken to hurt your or cause you to loose faith in Christ Jesus, please do refer to those points in my writing where I insulted Catholics and Orthodox Christians.

if I ask how does one hear the WOrd of God in its entirety (the Gospels here) when only 1/7 of the lections are publicaly proclaimed on the Lord's Day - it is a valid question. It is also a question that Catholic theologians discuss too. Is it ok for Catholic theologians to discuss them openly but not ok for others? i sat in classes with John P. Meier and had talks with otehr Catholic scripture scholars on the circuit discussing - and yes, debating - openly. Discussions were good. People no longer live in tiny hamlets where they can attend daily worship a few doors down before sunrise and then go to the fields to work. This is also not 18th century Rus' where the only literate people are the priests. The fact that you and I can discuss things openly on a public forum on the Internet is a far cry from days gone bye. SO my question is valid. Given this contemporary situation how DOES one hear the Word of God proclaimed in church? The romcaths have opted for a three-year cycle for their Sunday readings. the byzcaths have not. The romcaths have Old Testament readings on Sundays. the byzcaths do not. THere are real differences, real problems, and some real solutions. If an Evangelical member only proclaimed 1/7 of the Gospel lections each week, I would ask them the very same questions.

Once again, may God bless you Elijamaria (Mary). You are woman of faith and one to be admired for it. If I only had such humble faith as great as yours.

Peace,
Eddie H.

PS: My reference to me declaring that I was Catholic was to see what my Evangelical friends would say and do. Itwasn't what I said that bothered them but who they thought I was.

The answer is in the fullness of the liturgical life of the east, not just Sundays and weekday divine liturgies. Also I find that Orthodox and eastern Catholics read Scripture and there is a tradition of something comparable to lectio divina in the east as well as in the west.

The answer also lies in the tradition of staretz, or spiritual father and mother who oversee the individual's immersion in Scripture and the fathers and Traditions of the Church.

The answer also lies in the lay contact with a strong and vibrant monastic tradition.

The answer lies in the family and the strength of the bond between family life and faith.

The answer lies in parish sponsored Scripture studies.

The answer lies in parish activities and retreats.

The answer lies in good priests who carry the gospel message to the people in all times of the day and night, depending on the need.

The answer lies in the written spiritual reflections of Catholic and Orthodox authors and scribes.

I am so surprised that you've never heard any of this before.

Mary

Mary,

These sound very good. I am glad to hear that there are communities that have Scripture Studies and a full liturgical life so that the Word of God can be heard. But for most who show up to worship only on the Lord's Day, whta about them? Will you be satisfied with them hearing only 1/7 of the Gospels?

Good Christian communities of faith will makeup for the void found in formal worship by finding other avenues that will address the other 6/7ths of the Gospels.

I find something more of concern; and maybe you can help me Mary. If Christian believers are constantly looking for avenues to fill the void where official church order fails to address then does this not tell you something? I bet most byzcaths don't know what a staretz is; or can live nearby a monastic house (I learned recently that most of the recent byzcath monasteries had already left for other communities); not every parish has a Scripture studies; how many parish activities and retreats actually deal with the Word of God?;;;

So its back to your worship on the Lord's Day. you are satisfied that it only allows 1/7 of the Gospels to be proclaimed. No one complains? No official plan to remedy the situation to bring the Gospel to the people when the people DO show up for worship?

Thank you for your efforts to reply to my questions. you have been very patient with me. I can be stubborn in my questions because I feel most of the time they are rarely if ever answered. I don't expect you to answer on behalf of your church shepherds. I would think that most byzcaths and orthodox are satisfied with the way things are and thta most are content and DO find other avenues to fill the void.

Peace to you my sister,
Eddie Hashinsky

Dear Ed,

Have you considered that for over one thousand years, the Church was trying to preach and teach the Gospels to people who were illiterate and had absolutely no other way to hear them?

Also, please note that most Orthodox churches have some kind of Bible Study, and that we are even encouraged to read the Bible on our own? Infact, my spiritual father told me to read through the New Testament (something I have done many times since childhood anyway) after my first confession with him.

I have heard that many former Evangelicals join the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches, because after a while, they want something more than just the Bible; they want a deep and profound worship service and a sacramental life.

I think that both are needed for a full Christian understanding of the faith.

In Christ our Saviour,
Alice

Do protestants some how get all 7/7ths of the Gospel on Sunday?

I've never heard Joel Osteen even mention Scripture on his show. The only difference between his lectures and Wayne Dyer's are that Joel Osteen claims to be Christian.

The Liturgy is full and dripping with Scripture!

I will let Ezekiel speak to your dissembling and all of your efforts to falsely portray Catholic and Orthodox Scriptural life. You think you can draw our people with your lies? Perhaps some, but only for a little while and then they come home:

Ezekiel 13:

they are correct in their history of the compilation of the NT. take it from someone with a Master's in this area.
thanx for sharing.
Much Love,
Jonn