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Father Deacon, you're hostile attitude towards the Jews and continues apology for Satanist Islamic Terrorism is rather disturbing to me.


Before I get out of line and say something rude to you, I am going to back off.

I suggest you do some reading of the Qur'an. Obviously you have very little knowledge of it.

Oh I am not apologizing for Islamic nor Israeli nor any other kind of evil Terrorism at all. I just posted what Osama said, just to get the facts out and to show that what Ron Paul said was factually correct. It may be interesting to you that I got my first Qur'an 17 years ago and studied it very well as I was considering becoming a Muslim at that time. I still have a Qur'an and can read it as a whole rather than prooftexting it and know what it says. I still think it can be a very hateful religion, but I think the U.S. should be in Iraq. We have no right to be nation builders or the world's police force at the expense of young men and women. Religiously I find even more reason for us not to be there, and that is why the Canons of the Church do not excuse killing in war and state that a penance of many years should be put on a person who kills in war. However, thinking we should not be in Iraq does not make me an apologetic for Islam in the least. As for my "hostile attitude" toward the worldly state of Israel, rather than the New Israel which is the Church, comes from reading the Church Fathers and knowing what they said about the end times. The Neo-Con support of Worldly Israel (a.k.a. Zionism) comes from the heresies of Protestantism and are very dangerous as well.

Subdeacon Borislav,

Isn't it true that the Phanar, as well as the Popes of Rome and Alexandria, the Patriarchs of Antioch (Greek and Syriac), the Patriarchs of the Armenians, the Patriarchs-Catholicoi of the Assyro-Chaldeans, and others also warned the President of the United States that going to war in Iraq was misguided (some even calling it 'immoral')?

I am not necessarily pro Iraq war Michael. I do not believe that Iraq can be a democracy. I also disagree with Bush rather strongly on His view of Islam as the Religion of Peace and I outright condemn His relationship with Saudi Arabia.

In other words I am not really pro-Bush, nor am I really anti-Bush.

What I would like is for us to stop being politically correct and call Islam what it is. An intolerant, satanic Death Cult.

Having said that, I can not in good conscience support a withdrawal of troops at this time. Perhaps its time to reevaluate our role in Iraq. Maybe it is best to pull back to Kurdistan where we are actually wanted and appreciated. In this way we can keep Iran in check while keeping our soldiers from getting cut in the cross fire of Sunni and Shiite Barbarians.

Further if Iran persists in developing Nukes and we do not stop them, we just may become witnesses to a nuclear Genocide in our time.


Father Deacon, I am sorry I became upset with you. I thought that by posting Osama's explanations you were suggesting that 9/11 was our fault making an apology for Him.

Further I submit to you that Israel is the only country in the middle east where Christians can practice without fear of being slaughtered.

Yes they may feel unwanted, but they don't have to look over their shoulder 24 hours a day. There aren't Priests being beheaded there, there aren't nuns being killed.

The word "Allah" is used by Christians and Jews in the region as well, and all use it to mean "God". This argument that the Scriptures only mention YHWH doesn't quite make sense, since the word "God" isn't found in the Aramaic or Hebrew either. Would you agree with a Muslim "apologist" who claimed that we English speakers were worshipping a false deity since we call Him "God" and not YHWH, Elohim, Abba, etc?

From Wiki:

Interesting point Michael, but I think that Christians and Jews in the region use the name Allah incorrectly. As far as I know Allah was one of the Rock Idols which was in the Kabba in Mecca.

Also the earlier verses of the Qur'an make mention of Arakhman, who is another pagan God.

Finally Mohamed himself admits to being inspired by the devil. Remember the Satanic Verses countreversey?

Abba = Father
Elokim = Lord
Yahweh is a Particular name, much like Michael.

Surely you can make the distinction.

I, too, find the double standards to be disheartening at best and claims to "freedom" to be disingenuous at worst.


I know Muslims personally who are not blood thirsty, satanic, or into death. They seem to be devout, I can only go by their witness.


How are the Kurds any better? They have slaughtered Christians in their very recent past, for nothing. Furthermore, they have a very difficult time from fighting amongst themselves.



So far, Iran hasn't developed Nukes, they've enhanced Uranium for what they claim is energy.



Subdeacon, I suggest you speak with those Christians who reside under Israeli occupation. Archbishop Elias Chacour is in the US as we speak, witnessing to the atrocities committed. I recently posted a newclip from 2006 regarding a Jewish man's attempt to blow up the Church of the Nativity, while filled with worshipers.
Of course the Israeli media suppressed the story and it never made it far in the US.

The Kurds are not any better, but since we need a safe place to station our troops Kurdistan can serve this purpose.

I never said all Muslims are evil. However those who really follow Islam the way it was intended to be followed are. Peaceful Muslims have very little apology in their scriptures.

Surely, you don't buy into Iran's claims that they are only enriching uranium for energy.

Finally you can not use one example of an insane Jewish man and equate it to thousands of years of torture and rape at the hands of the Islamists.

I believe the Jews will hear the words of the Gospel yet!

I also believe that you use the word 'occupation' rather incorrectly.

Israel is not under Jewish occupation, Israel is in fact a Jewish state.

Need I also remind you that the Christ and all the Apostles were Jewish?

The temple which He so zealously protected from defilement was in Israel.

Borislav,

Actually, the Palestinian Christians are routinely harassed and intimidated by the the Israelis. And there may be no beheadings, but when Israeli tanks come in and wipe out a Palestinian village, Christians are killed all the same.

Joe

Borislav,

The Church is God's chosen people, not the worldly secular state of Israel. God destroyed the temple in Israel in 70 AD as a sign that the new and better covenant had arrived and the old abolished. We, Christians, are the true Jews and the true Israel, according to St. Paul. Secular Israel is not biblical Israel and the Jews are not true Jews according to St. Paul. He who has faith in Christ is a true Jew. And if you think I'm anti-semitic for saying this, then you will have to accuse the entire early Church and the church fathers of being anti-semites as well.

Joe

As bad as you claim that the Jews treat the Christians, which is completely and utterly untrue. I guarantee you that 90% of Christians living in places like Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and other Islamic countries would prefer to live in Israel. Need I mention that places like Saudi Arabia HAVE NO CHRISTIANS there?

Do you think that there is any country in the middle east where an event like the yearly Holy Fire could take place in realetive safety except for Israel? Do you think Saudi Police would guard the Christians as they attend the yearly event?

Can a priest walk down a Saudi street wearing a cross without being stoned to death?

You said that we are the new Israel, and I agree, but does that mean we should let the PLO terrorists destroy Israel, killing women and children?

Israeli soldiers are under the same strict guidelines as American soldiers. They aren't killers and many of them are Christians.

As for buldosering over houses in Palestinian villages.

If you place a rocket launcher on the top of your house and lob rockets into my back yard your house is getting buldousered my friend.

Thats actually very humanitarian if you ask me. Some evil regimes would go in and torch the house with the family in it.

Borislav,

I'm not going to continue in this debate. There is much that I could say but I feel that it would move us too far away from the original topic of this thread and it would be unhelpful and only inflame passions. Let us just say that I think the whole middle eastern situation is very complex, much more complex than the Republican leadership has made it out to be, and that things will continue to get worse for us unless we reassess our foreign policy and come to understand why things are the way they are today. I think that Ron Paul is the only candidate who is really willing to do that. So, he will have my vote in the Republican primary and since it is unlikely that he will get the nomination, I will probably write in his name in the general election.

Joe

Your statement is incorrect. My first cousin is an engineer from India who lives in Saudi Arabia, he is a Christian. There are many like him. SA does not allow conversions, but foreigners can be Christians - and they do have Christians inside SA, even if they don't admit it. As for Iran, and Pakistan - Iran has an ancient community of Jews, as well as Assyrian Christians. Pakistan, while not an ideal place for Christians, does have a few thousand.


Yes. UAE, Palestine, Egypt, formerly Iraq...


Why are we comparing SA to Israel anyhow? Israel is a US ally, and has control over many, many Christian sites. SA is supposedly an ally who is not worthy of the name, yet our government keeps mum.



Can a priest walk down some Israel streets without being spat upon?


Agreed. Does that mean Israel can do whatever it wants?


Many of who are Christian?


What if you are a Christian who happens to live next door, do you deserve to be bulldozed as well?


Humanitarian? Then Saudi is also "humanitarian", afterall, they only chop off an arm for stealing, not your head... the first time.

Ok than, if you do not bouldoser the house, what do you do?

Walk over there with some flowers and ask them to please stop bombing your house?

I have spoken with both Orthodox and Roman Catholic clergy who lived in Jerusalem and they said that before the creation of the worldly Israel, clergy and all Christians were treated much better by the ruling government. The fact that non-Protestant Christians (RC, EO, and OO) that live in this part of the Middle East tend to support the Palestinians over the Zionists should speak volumes to us living on the other side of the world. Just like in Serbia, America if not supporting the side of Christians in this conflict.