www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pictures of Deacon Ordination

Some here may enjoy seeing these pictures of Fr Deacon John Montalvo's recent ordination at St Stephen Pro-Cathedral in Phoenix, AZ earlier this month for the Eparchy of Van Nuys.

http://www.ststephenbyzantine.org/deacon_john\'s_ordination.htm

Many years to our new Deacon!

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Neat Photos!

And again: Mnohaya & Blahaya Lyita to Fr. Dc. John!

XB!

Herb

ps & dumb question: I have never seen an omophor designed quite that way that His Grace Vladyka was wearing. I am only familiar with the ones where the piece that comes down from the right shoulder folds back and flips up to go back over the left shoulder. In the photo, it seems, the piece coming down the right shoulder "takes a right turn (as it were) at the sterum" and become the piece that hangs down in front. Is this an ancient and customary Ruthenian usage?

Many Years!!

No, this "modernized" omorphor is not the traditional South-West Rus' recension. It has been used by Ruthenian and Ukrainian bishops in North America for over 25 years. Why spend the money on such ornate fabric for vestments and not fashion it into the traditonal one-piece wrap around omorphor?

Ung-Certez

I find this simplified style most unatractive.
I have photos of +Bishop Emil wearing the traditional style omophorion, so it hasn't been entirely unknown in North America. I I hope it makes a comeback very soon.

Michael

XB!

http://www.saintelias.com/Hierarchical/HierarchicalLtgy_elia.html
These are pictures of the last time our bishop visited our church. We had him wear these vestments which our protodeacon made many years ago for our old bishop Isidore.
I agree, someone should get the pattern for the one-piece omophor and burn it (and then burn the ashes).
We hope to get a small omophor for next time we have a hierachical so we can do all the stuff with that.
Our bishop's (or possibly those sewing their vestments) probably want to make our omophor look more like the latin pallium, hence the straight down the front and back.

I have even heard of a bishop making a one-piece podrisnik, epitrachil, palitsa, saakos, and omophor deal that you put on like a jacket and it zips up the front! Did these guys get dropped on their heads when they were babies?

We need someone to go aroun North America to visit all the different places and bishops and see and record what their customs are. A report should then be given to their authorities stating what our tradition is, and what these guys are getting away with. A proper Arkhieratikon should be put together by a group who knows what they are takling about including both a full Hierachical Divine Liturgy as well as how a bishop should serve a private liturgy.

It's kindof hard for me to comprehend these bishops who really have no intrest in what they are doing (other than the administrational stuff).

Don't even get me started on the mitres.

I have probably said enouph to keep me in trouble for a while.

Ilya
a hell deserving sinner

Dear Ilya,

I'll help with any burnings! I have a few other suggestions, as well.

I recently heard, to my horror, this story you relate of a certain hierarch having a one-piece-does-all "vestment" and my jaw is still on the floor. His rationalization was that all that vesting business adds a further 10 minutes to his "daily Mass." Ugh.

I, too, would like to see them participate in some sort of remedial liturgical education. If liturgizing is not their very most important "task," to which they devote heart and soul before all else, then they are unworthy of their office. Administration should be left entirely to a trusted archpriest or the deacons (on whom much of this originally fell anyway). We need to free up our bishops to be genuine men of prayer and therefore spiritual fathers.

But do give us your thoughts on the mitre situation. This is a new area for me and I'm keen to hear what you think!

BTW, do you know if the Patriarch is coming for the episcopal ordination in July in Mississauga? And if so, who is in charge of arranging the liturgy and practices? Any chance it might be the St. Elias gang??

Adam

P.S. Hell will not have you, since they can't standing singing down there, especially singing as well done as yours

Dear Adam,

What about the tradition of vesting in the centre of the Church?

Is that for specific Liturgies only?

Could it be done all the time?

p.s. the "hell" Ilya is talking about has more to do with the opprobrium of the Latin-minded in our Church . . .

Alex

Another question along the same tone:

I am just presuming that a Hierarchical Liturgy is prescribed whenever a Hierarch serves Liturgy, is that correct?

It's not like "High Mass" for special occasions, is it?

After all, the guy has to vest at some point anyways, no? (even if it is a "jumpsuit" [then the vesting prayers have to be said REAL quick])

I'm thinking that for special occasions one can fancy up the Hierarchical Liturgy with fancy singing and make the liturgical choreography more ritualised etc., but I'm guessing that the basic elements of the Hierarchical Liturgy is not optional (kanonically/typikally speaking), is it?

Do Orthodox Bishop's ever serve "low mass" liturgies, i.e. serve Divine Liturgy as if they were presbyters?

XB

Herb

I once served as a server for an OCA bishop serving a regular liturgy. If you don't have the ability or people to do a proper pontifical, This would be the thing to do (it still had a few elements indicating that there was a bishop present).
What bothers me is when our lovely bishops have knowing and willing guys, who have practiced and love the service, and the bishop still serves "low mass". I suppose they have to rush home for some important telivision program or hockey game.

forgive me.

ilya

I can understand if it is not possible to serve the full hierarchical liturgy, one would make do as one is able, of course.

My question is, is it ever normative? Isn't a Bishop serving like a presbyter, more of an exception to the rule thing? (Here I speak kanonically rather than sociologically)

XB

Herb

You are absolutely right, but our hierarchs choose to ignore that most of the time.

Herb,

Bishops can serve

1) hierarchically
2) "as priests" (meaning without all of the opening stuff)
3) literally in priests' vestments but with omophorion (the more ancient practice when the sakkos was for the emperor only)

or they can preside without vesting at all, in which case they bless the actions but do not intone anything.

Any of the above is normative, it just depends on the situation.

anastasios

XA! Thanks Anastasios. Are you saying that Hierarchs can generally serve Divine Liturgy (assuming that the Vesting is expendable as you say) without any of the specific Hierarchical parts, e.g. no Trikeri/Dikeri, etc.?

And which style depends on the judgement call of the Hierarch serving?

Herb

And what can you tell me about that horrible pastoral staff of big dimensions and the pictures of the candidate to deacon laying on the floor. I have attented some ordinations to deacon both in the Latin and the Orthodox Church and the candidate to the diaconate only lays on the floor during the litanies of the Saints at the Latin rite, whereas in the Byzantine rite we have the "holy dance" (ieros choros) around the table with the troparia Isaia, chroreve, Hagioi, martyres, etcetera. Can anybody explain me why was the deacon laying on the floor as in the Latin ordinations during the ordination rite (that's becouse he has got Latin (Spanish)name?)
Congratulations to the new deacon, may the lord give him many years at the service of the Gospel, and no congratulations to the bishop for his bad taste when electing his (hightly Laninizated) pontifical ornaments