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Sarum,

If you are not one of those who are included in my "most of you" than you have nothing to worry about. Do you?

This thread is a classic example of how an occasion for joy easily turns into an opportunity for a horde of critics at a fashion show. Gold thread? Silver lining? Was the fold old way or new way? Staff not fit the model? Too much ankle? Lace is out; silk is in.

Joe

Dear David,

No, David, your Hierarchy does not need my advises in order to choose a name for your Byzantine Catholic Church. I just express my personal oppinion about the election of the name. I consider that it is my right to express my personal oppinions here and it is your right not to take these oppinions into account.

Certainly the name recession is not a familiar term for me (I prefer the term tradition or use: the Romanian Byzantine tradition, the Melkite Byzantine use...). In some of the posts in this forum some of you use the term recession as synonymous of liturgical tradition or use (The Ruthenian recession=the liturgical uses of the Ruthenian Church)whereas other peope use the term recession when talking about the text of the Divine Liturgy or the edition of the liturgical texts (the Roman edition for the Ruthenians versus the Ruthenian recession). Could you, please, tell me about the exact meaning of this term in the studies of the Byzantine liturgy (in Robert Taft for example, who has writen a lot about the Ruthenian liturgical tradition)? Sincerely I do not know what exactly means.
Yours in Christ

Francisco,

You don't get it, do you? Yes, you did congratulate Fr. Deacon John, but quickly added your comments about Bishop William's bad taste.

What gives, Francisco? Why do you go on about the naming of our Church? Should the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) change its name since there are other churches in America that consider themselves as Orthodox too? See where this leads? Its petty. Leave it be.

Let us truly congratulate Fr. Deacon John on his recent ordination to the diaconate without the off-the-cuff opinions.

I suggest that the moderator or Administrator close this thread. It is beginning to serve no purpose.

I shall now go back into silence. This pettiness is inviting a number of logismoi into my mind and heart.

Good bye,
Joe

Francisco,

When I speak of recession I guess I am talking about liturgical tradition, which may be wrong on my part.

You seem to deny that there is anything different between the Liturgical Traditions of the Churches that are part of the Byzantine Rite. I think you are wrong here.

You also seem quick to pounce when you perceive something to be a latinization. Which, even if it is a latinization, you are wrong to do.

As what you, and others (myself included) may call a latinization, is the Tradition that many of our brothers and sisters grew up with, not knowing that it was a latinization.

We must be conscious of this fact, it would be just as wrong to pull the carpet out from under these people abruptly.

Yes, we must restore our Byzantine Traditions but we must do so at a reasonable pace and with proper explanation and education. We must also remember that the traditions of one church are not necessarily the same as others.

We should also work within our respective churches to help this change along. Pointing out failures within other churches does not help this, especially when all you seem to do is criticize the hierarchs.


David

If David is reading Francisco right, then I totally agree with him.

Latinizations are bad but we can't make our elders feel unwelcome. A lot of love and a lot of explaining must be done.

And there are differences between the Ruthenian (both Rusyn and Ukrainian)/Russian/Greek recensions (liturgical uses) while recession can also refer to editions of liturgical books.

anastasios

Agreed. What began as a celebration of the ordination of one of our own has quickly degenerated. The thread is now closed.

Many years to Fr. Deacon John Montalvo!! AXIOS, AXIOS, AXIOS!

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