www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology What Separates Catholicism and Orthodoxy?

Sounds right to me...

Chris

The mainline Protestants, perhaps not the Evangelicals as much, also tend to define themselves as "not like the Catholics". What is it about us Latins? We are everybody's favorite punching bag!

Alex,

I have some Orthodox friends who approach Catholic / Orthodox relations in that way too, but I have other Orthodox friends who approach the differences from a more positive perspective, i.e., based on what Orthodoxy teaches without any reference to the Latin dogmas formulated during the second millennium. Clearly, how the disagreements between the two sides are formulated can vary, but the fact that there are substantive theological differences is not really a debatable point.

God bless,
Todd

Dear Michael,

Or maybe it's because Catholics set the standard?

You know, all that stuff about the "one true Church" can really get under other people's skin sometimes . . .

Alex

Interesting.

I have an Orthodox friend who would characterize the ecumenical situation in a similar manner: Orthodox and . . . former Orthodox . . .

Dear Todd,

Absolutely! And the whole debate must be approached from that realistic perspective.

If there weren't substantive differences, especially with respect to ecclesiological modalities, Triadological formulations and Eschatological perspectives, we would already have one Church.

The question is - given those differences, is there any room for either side to move (in the direction of unity)?

Alex

Not as long as we ignore issues if attitude and ignorance.

M.

True.

That is the central question.

What is debatable is whether or not they warrant the sin of schism.

M.

Of course. But that doesn't change the fact that ignorance and bad attitude exist in some measure as a barrier to renewed communion.

Mary

Certainly one can debate whether the schism is necessary, but the answer to that question depends on the nature of truth. That said, I do not believe that my Orthodox friends (or my Catholic friends for that matter) hold the doctrinal positions that they do just so that they can be in schism.

God bless,
Todd

Dear Mary,

Well, we could always get out of it by saying this or that side is in invincible ignorance and has a bad attitude!

I suspect, however, that the Catholic and Orthodox theologians discussing these matters have concluded that there are indeed very real differences that are sincerely held by both sides and which are not easily overcome, even with the best of intentions.

As an example, the Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox were separated by "one word" as they said for 1800 years. The word issue is overcome easily enough.

What isn't is the 1800 years of name-calling . . .

Alex

I think that Mary's point is that the nature of truth surpasses any of our abilities to "formulate" it. Therefore, if there is an Orthodox formula and a Catholic formula, but they are not the same, then the question is, are they both authentic witnesses to that truth which surpasses our ability to fully express it? If so, we embrace each other in the love of the Triune God. Everything else is mere commentary.

Mary, sorry to put words in your mouth...

God bless us all and especially on the (mutual) Solemnity of Pentecost!

Nor would I, nor would I claim they were the only, or even the primary factors. I certainly wouldn't say the issue is with the person of the opposite view simply having negative motivations.

Thoughtful, intelligent people who understand the issues say there are critical differences, even if there a number (or even more) of points of agreement. Otherwise the schism would be about a mindset, prejudice or negative motivations as some on both sides would have you believe (think Likoudis, or whoever his counterparts are Orthodoxy).

I've already said elsewhere I would be perfectly fine with the Orthodox hierarchs stating communion was open to Catholics if they are properly disposed to receive. By the same token I disagree with things the RCC states about itself, so I couldn't in good conscience do the same.

I honestly don't see the schism being resolved ever. It's not because I hate Catholics or I am in fear of them or I'm simply ignorant of what they state about themselves. That is just the way I see it.

That's nice. So when the theologians finally decide that Baptism is the same and the filioque can be understood to be theologically correct but we should get rid of it in the common creed, then maybe they can be in communion and the rest of the faithful can continue to duke it out.

You see the problem is not in the great theologians thinking and acting in the fullsomeness of their greatness.

The problem is down here on the ground where we continue to grind our axes.

M.