I'm not saying that the UGCC is without it's issues (to be kind). St. Andrew's in Parma in Ohio here is interesting to attend to say the least with it's altar girls, recited liturgies, kneeling on Sundays, etc.
I just think that if more churches were like this:
that many of you would still be with us. Note I said many not all.
I'm not saying that the UGCC is without it's issues (to be kind). St. Andrew's in Parma in Ohio here is interesting to attend to say the least with it's altar girls, recited liturgies, kneeling on Sundays, etc.
I just think that if more churches were like this:
that many of you would still be with us. Note I said many not all.
Monomakh
I watched that video some time ago and couldn't believe my eyes. Hard to believe that it's a Greek Catholic Church. They are a parish that should be emulated by all Greek Catholics, and some Orthodox parishes could also learn a thing or two.
If I could kindly get Luther out of this and add this, or maybe say that this is what would be in my letter to those who have gone to Orthodoxy or are considering it:
While I understand the reasons (believe you me) for leaving, I would ask you, if it is possible, to travel to Brampton, Ontario (just outside of Toronto) and experience a liturgy at St. Elias there. I think that you would find everything that you are looking for, and the salient point is not for all us to move to Brampton and become parishoners there, but to realize that one can be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time, that it is truly possible. However, it just isn't happening in 90%+ of parishes in North America. And don't try to tell me that when 90%+ of our churches don't have Vespers or Matins that it is happening. Don't try to tell me that when liturgy is over in 45 minutes as I experienced today at my BCA church that something isn't wrong.
The point is that it can happen. Have those who are on the ledge and considering Orthodoxy considered the UGCC? They've got their liberal places as well, but they also have (i.e. St. Elias) some 'Orthodox' ones as well. I'm not advocating it as much as I am just throwing it our there for comment?
Monomakh
Sounds like a good idea Monomakh, but every UGCC church I've been to was very Latinized with recited (gag!) Liturgies.
Come to Assumption UGCC in St. Louis, all singing all the time!
This isn't meant to be an infomercial for St. Elias in Brmapton, but rather food for thought for those who are considering leaving. Once again, it is possible to be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time.
If the principles and traditions practiced at St. Elias were proprogated at more of our churches, real renewal would take place in faith and growth.
Archbishop Basil has called for 'an athentic place of worship'.
Let's start with St. John's in Munhall.
What time is Vespers this Saturday?
What time is Matins next Sunday?
What time is the bonfire with the pews?
That should be a good start.
Monomakh
ps If you like the other video check this one out:
If I could kindly get Luther out of this and add this, or maybe say that this is what would be in my letter to those who have gone to Orthodoxy or are considering it:
While I understand the reasons (believe you me) for leaving, I would ask you, if it is possible, to travel to Brampton, Ontario (just outside of Toronto) and experience a liturgy at St. Elias there. I think that you would find everything that you are looking for, and the salient point is not for all us to move to Brampton and become parishoners there, but to realize that one can be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time, that it is truly possible. However, it just isn't happening in 90%+ of parishes in North America. And don't try to tell me that when 90%+ of our churches don't have Vespers or Matins that it is happening. Don't try to tell me that when liturgy is over in 45 minutes as I experienced today at my BCA church that something isn't wrong.
The point is that it can happen. Have those who are on the ledge and considering Orthodoxy considered the UGCC? They've got their liberal places as well, but they also have (i.e. St. Elias) some 'Orthodox' ones as well. I'm not advocating it as much as I am just throwing it our there for comment?
Monomakh
Sounds like a good idea Monomakh, but every UGCC church I've been to was very Latinized with recited (gag!) Liturgies.
Come to Assumption UGCC in St. Louis, all singing all the time!
Is it an all ENGLISH sung Liturgy? I have yet to witness it at any UGC church. The completely sung liturgies were always in Ukrainian.
This isn't meant to be an infomercial for St. Elias in Brmapton, but rather food for thought for those who are considering leaving. Once again, it is possible to be Catholic and Orthodox at the same time.
If the principles and traditions practiced at St. Elias were proprogated at more of our churches, real renewal would take place in faith and growth.
Archbishop Basil has called for 'an athentic place of worship'.
Let's start with St. John's in Munhall.
What time is Vespers this Saturday?
What time is Matins next Sunday?
What time is the bonfire with the pews?
That should be a good start.
Monomakh
ps If you like the other video check this one out:
Monomakh, that statement leaves me a little perplexed. If one can be Orthodox and Catholic at the same time, why does my priest tell me I can't commune outside of the Orthodox Church?
Monomakh, that statement leaves me a little perplexed. If one can be Orthodox and Catholic at the same time, why does my priest tell me I can't commune outside of the Orthodox Church?
Absolutely crucial point Etnik!!
This is why the Catholic Church makes plain the difference between a "material" schismatic, and a "formal" schismatic.
A formal schismatic who meets the Church's criteria is said to be sinfully participating in a sinful act.
A material schismatic may have circumstances that mitigate their participation in formal schism and are not condemned by the Church in any way, though I cannot imagine any of our recent popes encouraging such willful participation.
That being said, the Catholic position toward Orthodoxy is one of economy while the Orthodox position toward the Catholic Church remains one of acriva.
I am sorry to say this thread is all over the place. Very little has anything to do with the RDL, and it seems that a number of misunderstandings have occurred. I strongly suggest that the initial post be reworded as to what is being sought in discussion and re-attempted either in this section if that is the main focus of the thread or in the appropriate section for that subject. Again only if that is what that poster wants. In the meantime this thread is closed.
In IC XC, Father Anthony+ Administrator
Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
The Byzantine Forum provides
message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though
discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are
those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the
Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the
www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial,
have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as
a source for official information for any Church. All posts become
property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights
reserved.
