www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Patriarch Bartholomew and "3rd Rome"

Alex, why isn't celebrating the end of Nazism and slaughtered of milions of innocent people easy for you to do?

Just wondering...

Not offense, but maybe you would have been more comfortable with Hitler in Ukraine?

Further, please don't pretend like there weren't any Ukrainian Communists or Anarchists and the tragedy in our Country was all Russia's fault.

Do you know anything about Bat'ko Mahno and Gulyaj Pole? Do you know that Gulyaj Pole lived in arguably the only Kamunna in the world? Do you know that Mahno was the first man awarded the infamous Orden of Chervonno Znamya? Do you know what nationality Mahno was?

Do you know about the partisan resistance movement during WWII led by Communist Party Member Kovpak? What nationality do you think He was? Chinese?

I grew up in the Ukraine and the Communist Party was filled with Ukrainians in our city, in fact it was predominantly Ukrainian.

How about these fine citizens? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Ukraine

Think Simonenko is a Russian from Siberia?

As everyone who reads the forum probably knows already, I'm Irish, not Ukrainian. As you may know, Ireland was neutral in both World Wars. As you probably don't know (since I don't think I've mentioned it previously), my father fought in the US Army in World War II.

Now, to respond to the question of why many Ukrainians in Canada - although by no means all - might find V-E day anniversaries a bit problematic.

Western Ukraine was languishing under Poland during the interwar period - and it was not pleasant. Still, it was rather better than the terror-famine which took place in Soviet Ukraine in the nineteen-thirties, for which the Ukrainians in Poland had a ringside seat, so to speak, but were unable to send any material help to Ukraine because of Soviet border controls.

When World War II began - with the Hitler-Stalin Pact, which should never be forgotten - Poland was wiped off the map and Western Ukraine passed to the tender, gentle administration of the USSR. The number killed in less than 2 years is over a quarter of a million, to say nothing of those imprisoned, deported, and so on. The intelligentsia, and those who practiced any religion whatever, were high on the purge list. Many Jews succeeded in fleeing from Nazi-controlled territory to the newly Sovietized territory - but unfortunately the Soviets did not make these Jews welcome in the least, nor did they make any provision for their sustenance. This quite deliberately added to the economic and social chaos.

When the Soviets fled in 1941, the Germans who came in opened the prisons and showed the locals what had been going on - including such charming practices as crucifixions, the boiling of human remains to make soap (sound familiar?) and so on. You get the idea.

Foolishly, a fair number of Ukrainians regarded the Germans as the lesser of two evils, and hoped that it would be possible to take advantage of the situation to achieve an independent Ukraine. That was never on the German agenda. Apart from food products (which the Germans confiscated mercilessly) and slave labor (for which many Ukrainians were sent willy-nilly to the Reich), the only use the Germans had for the Ukrainians was that of cannon fodder - specifically in the SS Halychyna. Again foolishly, some Ukrainians hoped that this structure could at least provide training for a future officer corps of a future Ukrainian army. It did not.

Instead, a large number of Ukrainians - the lucky ones, as it turned out - managed to leave Western Ukraine as the war was drawing to a close, and find refuge in the West. But it is hardly surprising that they and their children tend to regard the subsequent Western delivery of Eastern Europe to Stalin as something of a betrayal of the announced aims of the war (remember the Four Freedoms, or the Atlantic Charter?). There were serious cases of mass suicides in DP camps after the war when the people were threatened with "repatriation" to Communist-controlled territory.

By the way, this experience and this history are by no means confined to Ukrainians. Speak with Poles who served under General Anders (supposedly as allies of the West, not that the West did much for them), or Russians, or . . . you get the idea.

I could go on, but that should do for now.

Fr. Serge

Father, making soap out of people is very much a German Nazi practice, as many members of the Jewish side of my family fond out first hand.

Otherwise I agree with your post.

Some Pics from my prayer corner.

The flags haven't gotten in a fight yet!

The Icons are also getting along just fine!
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn4469xt3.jpg

http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn4472vy4.jpg

http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn4473gk1.jpg

You venerate the Ukrainian flag!!! I knew it!!!

Subdeacon,

I know: Blahoslovy, Yak spravy, pereproshuyu, dyakuyu, Slava Isusu Khrystu, Da pobachennya, Mene Svut', Ya likar, etc...

But I don't think I knew any of those words, could you please translate?

Bat'ko Mahno - Leader of the Anarchist movement in the Ukraine

Mahno - His last name. Bat'ko - Father

Gulyaj Pole - A name of an area in the Ukraine

Gulyaj - To wonder about, to be free, to go for a walk

Pole - Field

Orden of Chervonno Znamya - One of the Highest Marks of Honor
given to Soldiers of the Revolution and defenders of the Soviet Homeland.

Orden - Medal
Chervonno - Red
Znamya - Flag or Standard

Kovpak - Ukrainin Communist Officer, leader of the Partisamn movement that frustrated the Germans in WWII


Mahno
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno
Kovpak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydir_Kovpak
Orden of the Red Banner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Red_Banner

Subdeacon,

Thanks!

Are you impressed with my Ukrainian phrases?