|
5 members (Fr. Al, theophan, 3 invisible),
107
guests, and
17
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,219
Posts415,299
Members5,881
| |
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza Member
|
OP
Catholic Gyoza Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,658 Likes: 3
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,658 Likes: 3 |
If he did, he'd have to burn his book The Pope, the Eagle and the Iron Sickle
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264 |
All these people trying to reinvent the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church....geesh! Why not just call it the "Third Reorganized Second-Day after Friday Church of the First Restored Gospel of Perry Stone with Miracles and Signs Following"? The fact that his ministry is named after himself is telling... Gordo PS: Here is the link to the book. It is called "Unusual Prophecies Being Fulfilled". https://www.voiceofevangelism.org/s...=82615409&fxn=detail&pid=BK-PBF4Do you think he views his own "reinvention" of Christianity as unusual? Probably not...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264 |
Here's his infomercial... mms://media1.winworld.cc/voe/stone_report_may07.wmv https://www.voiceofevangelism.org/home.cfm (See "The Stone Report") Can't wait for his "Bloodline of the Antichrist" talk. Wonder who it will be?!? I wonder if the Apostle Paul used Casio Keyboards, too... Gordo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza Member
|
|
OP
Catholic Gyoza Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518 |
There is nothing new under the sun. He is part of the Neo-Judaizing TBN crowd. On my cable channels, "Inspiration Network," or as it used to be known, TBN. Is channel 27 and channel 28 is EWTN so I cross their path frequently and they are always pushing the most ancient of all Christian heresies. "God will make yeeew rich if yeeew keep the 3 Great Feasts!"  ------------------------------------------------------------------- Er, that is: "God will pour abundant blessings on yeeew if yeeew keep the 3 Great Feasts! He always delivers what He promises, so in a way yeeew can demand blessings from Him" That's actually what was said.
Last edited by Dr. Eric; 06/02/07 06:27 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264 |
I'm actually far more sympathetic to (authentic) Jewish Christianity than to this dude. (I like your phrase "Neo-Judaizer".) I'm listening to his simply dizzying exegesis of Revelation 13 and the 2nd Beast...
Guess who it is...THE POPE!!!
...well, at least an invalidly elected one.
WOW...this guys got it all figured out. It just shows to go you that a little knowledge of scripture can be a dangerous thing.
Gordo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza Member
|
|
OP
Catholic Gyoza Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza Member
|
|
OP
Catholic Gyoza Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518 |
From the website: Strange Laws of Torah
In the Torah (the first five books written by Moses) God gave many strange laws. For example, a person could not wear wool and linen together (Deuteronomy 22:11). You could not boil the milk and the meat of a lamb in the same pot (Deuteronomy 14:21). The land had to rest every seven years (Leviticus 25). You were not allowed to mingle the seed in a field (Leviticus 19:19). Fathers were to circumcise their sons on the eighth day (Leviticus 12:3). Why did the Almighty demand such obedience and lay out such strange laws?
Thousands of years later, research has revealed the answers. Wearing wool and linen together has an effect on the body�s stamina. A person is physically weakened wearing this combination. It has been proven that drinking milk and eating meat is not a good combination on the digestive system. If a person allows the land to rest every seventh year, the topsoil can receive the nutrients it needs as the fruit drops to the ground, rots, and replenishes the soil around it. Also, locusts have a life cycle of seven years. When Israel allowed the land to rest, the locusts would have to leave Israel and go to neighboring countries where food could not be found. When a person mingles the seed, the plant can have a strange taste when it is harvested.
Why did God instruct circumcision on the eighth day? In the 1940�s, the American Medical Association discovered two key blood clotting substances, both vitamin K and prothrombin. These two important substances are at their peak on the eighth day of a male child�s life! In other words, God instructed circumcision at a time when the male body would provide the best time to heal the cut!
When reading the Torah, we discover many strange commands, yet each one has a practical meaning. In the 1800�s the infant mortality rate was high. Doctors would deliver babies and wash their hands in a basin of water. Using the Bible, medical doctors read where a person should wash their hands over running water. When doctors obeyed the Bible, the infant mortality rate went down!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440 |
Dear Dr. Eric, I recall speaking to a young Jewish Orthodox girl many years ago. She told me about the strange laws of Judaism, and how her Rabbi told her it was to teach them to obey, regardless of what it was. After thinking about it for a few days, I realized that the laws she told me were very logical. She said that meat and milk products are not to be eaten together. If you go to Israel, you will find that in the morning they will have cheeses and milk products, and in the evening the meat. Some of the traditional deserts are awful. You can tell they are made with fake products...just like ours.  Well, I recall coming back from Greece years ago, where everything was cooked with olive oil and therefore exceptionally light, that the one food I would never have eaten was a cheeseburger. The combination would have sat like a stone in my stomach.  The other thing she said is that a horse and an ox must never pull a plow together. Well, they can't! Also, women must not wear linen. This I assume, was because it was the sheerest fabric of the time, and must have been suggestive. I was dismayed at the above posts, because frankly I don't think the Evangelicals or any faith should be mocked. Rather we should marvel at how they are gradually turning their beliefs around and starting to conform them to the traditional churches. Remember they are the one's that are reaching the truly destitute and unchurched. By gradually bringing in the Eucharist, and also fasting, they are taking those that were far from God, and re-introducing them to the ancient faith. I see God's hand in all of this.  God Bless, Zenovia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264 |
Dear Dr. Eric, I recall speaking to a young Jewish Orthodox girl many years ago. She told me about the strange laws of Judaism, and how her Rabbi told her it was to teach them to obey, regardless of what it was. After thinking about it for a few days, I realized that the laws she told me were very logical. She said that meat and milk products are not to be eaten together. If you go to Israel, you will find that in the morning they will have cheeses and milk products, and in the evening the meat. Some of the traditional deserts are awful. You can tell they are made with fake products...just like ours. Well, I recall coming back from Greece years ago, where everything was cooked with olive oil and therefore exceptionally light, that the one food I would never have eaten was a cheeseburger. The combination would have sat like a stone in my stomach. The other thing she said is that a horse and an ox must never pull a plow together. Well, they can't! Also, women must not wear linen. This I assume, was because it was the sheerest fabric of the time, and must have been suggestive. I was dismayed at the above posts, because frankly I don't think the Evangelicals or any faith should be mocked. Rather we should marvel at how they are gradually turning their beliefs around and starting to conform them to the traditional churches. Remember they are the one's that are reaching the truly destitute and unchurched. By gradually bringing in the Eucharist, and also fasting, they are taking those that were far from God, and re-introducing them to the ancient faith. I see God's hand in all of this. God Bless, Zenovia Zenovia, I agree in principle that we should not mock the faith of others - but this man purports to be a Biblical scholar and uses his "secret wisdom" of Biblical interpretation to accuse the Catholic Church of being the source of the 2nd Beast of Revelation, casting aspersions upon Catholics because a priest in Rome told him that he hears people denying Christ all the time at the Vatican. This additional secret wisdom gives him the answers to pressing questions like: What actually happened to the Saddam Hussein's WMD in Iraq? I kid you not! (from Biblical prophecy, no doubt!) I'm sorry - this man's theological reasoning is spurious, and he misleads his flock into all sorts of strange notions and profits by demeaning Catholics. Such is the nature of heresy, I suppose. I would separate his ilk, who makes $$$ from the likes of the average sincere Christian believer by passing on "secret knowledge", from the average Protestant pastor trying to shepherd his flock. He has slick branding, throwing all sorts of Jewish symbols into the packaging of his products. But having seen too many "Bible showboats" in my day, especially anti-Catholic ones, I have very little tolerance for them and do not hesitate to criticize. God bless, Gordo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza Member
|
|
OP
Catholic Gyoza Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518 |
The other problem I have is that he is promoting the Judaizing heresy as what God wants people to do. They even sell mezuzahs for people to put on their doors and other rituals of Judaism.
What the Church has done by morphing the old rituals into our modern Worship is the way that this should have been and is done.
I was amazed to see how the Divine Liturgy parallels the Old Temple worship, down to the tabernacle. But we don't adopt Judaism and its practices to become true Christians.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,264 |
The use of mezuzahs is not heretical, though. The heresy of Judaizing refers specifically to the notion that one must pass through the ceremonial law of Moses in order to enter the New Covenant of Jesus. That includes the covenant sign of circumcision as well as the observation of the various Old Covenant feasts and sacrifices.
Yes, there are many wonderful parallels between the worship of the synagogue, the Temple and Christian Liturgy. The threefold typology of the Temple actually extends to Eden, which ultimately is an icon of heaven. This is one of the reasons why the RC Church we recently lambasted (Star Wars?) is heterodox in most of its construction. It has no relationship to the typology of the temple.
In ICXC,
Gordo
PS: I had a dream once that I attended a Messianic Jewish workshop in Florida in the hopes of converting them to Eastern Christianity. Someday who knows!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518
Catholic Gyoza Member
|
|
OP
Catholic Gyoza Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,518 |
Gordo,
I watch these programs occasionally, they do say that the only time that you can get God's full forgiveness is on Yom Kippur.
They do exhort their viewers to follow the 3 big feasts of Judaism.
They believe that there will be a "Third Temple" built and that the Old Testament sacrifices have to begin. (While forgetting what happened when Julian the Apostate attempted to rebuild the Second Temple.)
I'd call that Judaizing.
(Some hold to a few of the above statements and some hold to all of them.)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,440 |
I agree in principle that we should not mock the faith of others - but this man purports to be a Biblical scholar and uses his "secret wisdom" of Biblical interpretation to accuse the Catholic Church of being the source of the 2nd Beast of Revelation, casting aspersions upon Catholics because a priest in Rome told him that he hears people denying Christ all the time at the Vatican. Dear Gordo, I do not know the man, nor have I listened to him. Somehow I'm not up to things in the Evangelical world. I do recall Jimmy Swaggert though about thirty years ago. Here I would see this good looking man leaping all over the stage on TV bashing the Catholics. I couldn't help wondering to myself how can one profess to be a Christian and yet continuously bash other Christians...with the elders of course in the background looking as smug as can be.  Needless to say, the Pentacostals at that time were growing in leaps and bounds. My perplexity and concern was not who they were bashing, (whether Catholic or Orthodox), but rather the act of bashing in itself... when their concern should have been in edifying people. Years later, while watching Pat Robertson, (who never resorted to such things), I heard him mention something about how he warned them they were falling into heresy. It seems from what I gathered that they followed something called 'sheparding', where one watches over another. Basically a form of control. Well Jimmy Swaggart ended up with his scandel, and the Pentacostals seemed to go downhill after that. So much for them! As for the Judaizing, it seems the Protestant Evangelicals are realizing their shortcomings. Their years of anti-Catholicism will not allow them to connect to traditions of the Hellenic/Roman world, so they are connecting themselves to Judaic traditions. That's okay though! The people he's reaching are not ready for anything else. Where they're faulty though, and spiritually immature, is their obsession with prophecy. That wouldn't be so bad, (after all we all have some of that), but rather than allowing circumstances to come about in whichever way God Wills, they are in a way enforcing prophecy.  No matter! Except for the condemnation of the Catholics and the Pope, (which has always been part of Protestanism), they are reaching the spiritually immature in the only way they can be reached. In time, God will lead them into a greater fulfillment of their spiritual growth, and Perry Stone will either recognize his limitations, of will go the way of Jimmy Swaggart. God Bless, Zenovia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 489
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 489 |
For example, a person could not wear wool and linen together (Deuteronomy 22:11). You could not boil the milk and the meat of a lamb in the same pot (Deuteronomy 14:21). You were not allowed to mingle the seed in a field (Leviticus 19:19). Scientific explanations are not bad, but all three of these laws have one thing in common theologically: not mixing unlike things together. The Hebrews were on their way to Canaan. It was important that they not to intermarry with the Canaanite women (which, of course, they did) because the Canaanite women would introduce idolatry. St. Paul expressed the same idea in when he counseled the early Christians not to be "unequally yoked" - like the horse and the ox! The land had to rest every seven years (Leviticus 25). While in past centuries we would see this as good husbandry, again there is a theological reason: it reinforces the idea that all creation must rest one-seventh of the time--one day out of seven for humans and livestock, one year out of seven for the land.
|
|
|
|
|
