www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Just Become Catholic or Orthodox Already!!!

True enough, and well said. That is a major purpose of the Biblical injunction, in order to keep God's chosen people from mixing with and then joining the pagans. The ancients (and the Holy Spirit) knew that syncretism or even mere mingling can be first steps to assimilation . . . and thus losing the distinction that was prized in the first place.

Now for a twist on the idea. This thread is entitled "Just Become Catholic or Orthodox Already!" One way to read this is "in contrast to other forms of Christianity."

Another way, however, is "Choose to be either Orthodox or Catholic." It is this latter perspective I would like to explore given the Biblical injunctions which prohibit mixing different things.

I mean no disrespect towards those who firmly believe in being Orthodox in communion with Rome.

But, are there any folks here (Catholic or Orthodox) who believe that it is impossible (functionally or otherwise) to really be Orthodox in communion with Rome: because it is mixing two systems of religion that are just too different from each other?

Again, I'm not pushing polemics here. And I don't like range wars.

Instead, I'm looking at the Old Testament idea of prohibiting the mixing of different things. The goal was to prevent God's people from losing their identity and their distinctive devotion to God. And I'm wondering: does that also apply to Catholics and Orthodox? They are each part of God's people, but they each have their own identity and their own distinctive devotion to God. So, should the Catholics and the Orthodox remain separate in order to be keep their identity and their distinct devotion to God?

-- John

John, I think we need to differentiate between being Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic. As I'm sure you're aware, spiritually and liturgically, Eastern Catholicism is much closer to Orthodoxy (capital O) than to Roman Catholicism. Eastern Catholicism does, however, need to shed its latinizations.

Prior to schism, during times of controversy within Eastern Christianity, various Patriarchs appealed to Rome to settle the disputes. There are certainly many issues to be settled before Roman Catholicism and Eastern Christianity - both Catholic and Orthodox - can all one again. But it was Christ's prayer and so it shall happen, eventually.

Some of you might be interested in the upcoming Applied Biblical Studies Conferences at Franciscan University. The topic is "Feasts of Israel, Feasts of the Church". It looks like a very exciting topic!

http://www.franciscanconferences.com/conferences/confdetails.asp?ConferenceID=91

Dear John,

The Old Testament idea of prohibiting the mixing of different things, had to do with the Jews mingling with the pagans, but it's also emphasizing the fact that God intended us to be different. Our worship is part of our distinct culture, and because of that, we would have to be worshipping differently...in some ways at least.

I believe, (and this is strictly my belief from the little I know), that the splits in the Church came about because of cultural changes and/or clashes. As some Germanic tribes entered Italy, the RCC began to change, (especially regarding the Pope), causing the splits in the two Churches. The whole Germanic world though, was far too populated to adapt to this still partly Greco/Roman faith, and clashed. The result was catastrophic.

They can remain separate, as they should since we all speak different languages, and can only think within the languages we speak, but the basic teachings of the faith should be the same. Christianity in whichever way it is practiced, should have the same core beliefs.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Oops! I forgot to mention that it should be one Christian Church. When I said separate, I meant that they should worship differently, and in that sense be separate, but the core beliefs must be the same. Also, the Protestants should join the universal Christian Church, and have the same core beliefs. They can retain their way of worship as different movements within the universal Church. Sacraments should only be offered by a priest and during a liturgy, never by a Minister though.

Every group has it's own talents and gifts, and they should be used for evangelizing, and for the glory of God.

At least you can criticize. I have to bind my tongue when discussion of these guys comes up because I am struggling to maintain Christian charity when thinking about or discussing them. My tendency is to verbally nuke them into oblivion, which I'm not convinced is the way of charity.

My wife and I were deeply hurt by one of these guys a number of years back and she never forgave me for following the man and his teachings. I watched others get hurt by similar bad teaching. People are sheep. Jesus said so. That means we are dumb and easily led, therefore, people like this can really do some damage because they are without control.

Brother Ed

Perry Stone is also a prophecy nut.

Oh goodness...I once heard the well-known televangelist Jack Hayford extol the virtues of communion. He suggested you get some Wonder bread and grape juice and have some right there in your home...and if you're having trouble, "dip the bread in the grape juice and dab some of it on your door"!

Yes, there is a real current out there, Messianic Jews or otherwise, who want Christians to adopt Jewish rituals. I think it all comes back to this: standing in a gymnasium-like "Christian Family Center" (not "church") in front of a bare stage bedecked with a glass pulpit and ferns, singing "praise choruses" whose lyrics are projected on the walls isn't fulfilling. They crave ritual and meaning, and they follow that wherever they find it. If only they'd follow it to its source....

------
Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Well said, W.O.!

BTW, has anyone been here?

http://www.theholylandexperience.com/

I visited it on a business trip to Florida a few years back. It was very interesting.

My sense is that Catholics and Orthodox, as part of their kerygma, should rediscover their roots within Judaism - to discern and proclaim the precise nature of the ingrafting of the wild Gentile branches onto the vine of ancient Israel. There is a subtle Marcionism that I see creeping up within the churches coupled with a completely baffling bi-covenantalism that blocks our witness to the offspring of Abraham.

Last time I checked, God's call to Israel and to the Jewish people was without repentance...He wants them all within the One Fold of the One Shepherd - Yeshua the Messiah, Son of David and Lamb of God!

Gordo