www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West How to you officially become Byazntine ???

Dear Ad Orientem and Jakub,

Just making sure you guys are out there . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

It depends on who you mean when you say Macedonians. The real Macedonians in Northern Greece, or the one's further north that want to claim the name for themselves...for no doubt political reasons? In other words FYROM.

I recently read that they adopted the flag, but graciously stopped using it to accomodate Greece. They refused though to deny the name 'Macedonia'. Hmmm! That would be similar to Quebec renaming itself New York, and graciously not using the New York State flag. Of course we all know that Quebec will not claim New York State, so maybe I should say it would be like the Northern part of Mexico renaming itself Texas, and graciously not using the Texas flag.

So the Macedonians were Slavs? The Slavs though did not enter that part of the world until about the sixth century. No difference though, that whole area was a mixture of Slavs, Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks, all trying to establish boundaries...through wars, wars, wars, and more wars. Is FYROM looking for another war? You know that it showed Solonika, (Thessalonika) on it's travel posters?

The more important thing though is one's heritage. The Macedonians were Greeks, whatever that means? Basically they were part of the Greek world of the time, in the same way that we are Anglo-Saxons to the Arabs. (That's what they called us). They definitely were not Slavic...though, many of today's Greeks are.

FYROM is rediculous. How dare they covet another's heritage. It's so rediculous, that I can't help but feel that there is another motive. Our government says it is to keep that country from having a civil war. A civil war between who, the Muslims and Christians? Well then who is it that wants the name, the Muslims or the Christians?

It must be the Muslims, and for what reason? I can't help but feel, since they relate themselves to Turkey, that they want to reunite with that country some day, and expand into Greece. Otherwise, why did they show Solonika on their posters? Solonika is a Greek city today, and it was established by Alexander and named after his sister. In the interval, it was Roman, Byzantine, Turkish and at one time predominantly Jewish. It is also highly coveted because it is on the Aegean.

Something seems fishy to me!!!

God Bless,

Zenovia

I had the misfortune to drive right through Thessaloniki a number of years ago in the middle of an enormous Greek demonstration against Macedonia (I was driving from Sofia to Athens).

The controversy over who or what may be called Macedonian or Macedonia did not suddenly arise; it has been around for a long time. Basically, one can easily find Greeks who maintain that they themselves are Macedonians, and one can find a substantial number of people who maintain that they are Macedonians and who do not use any other ethnic term for themselves.

Present-day Macedonian is clearly a Slav language, and we do at least know that Saints Cyril and Methodius initially learned something of Slavonic from the people in northern Greece who spoke a form of Slavonic. So whatever else about the people who speak present-day Macedonian, they and their linguistic predecessors have been there for over a thousand years.

On the other hand, Greece is apprehensive that the present government in Skopje might sooner or later attempt to gain possession of Thessaloniki, using as a pretext the implied claim to what is now Greek territory but is often called Macedonia. Wars have been fought over less.

To add to the confusion, Bulgaria might raise some claims too - a substantial number of whatever-one-cares-to-call the people in question took refuge in Bulgaria before the Communists took over Bulgaria.

As an example of how far this can go: I was visiting a parish not far from Thessaloniki about ten years ago, and my attention was drawn to an icon on the icon-screen. The Icon was captioned "Anthony and Paul". But closer inspection revealed that it was actually an altered icon, and had originally portrayed Ss. Cyril and Methodius!

History is a powerful force. This disagreement is by no means the only such conflict in the world.

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father Archimandrite! Throw a Kiss, Zenovia!

I, for one, do not wish to say anything that might give rise to me being ostracized by the excellent restaurants and bakeries of our Greek-Town!

The Alexander the Great bust that we have here is a landmark and the Star of Vergina is on his chest. The Macedonians also like to place the Cross right on the Star as their Christian emblem.

The Muslims do venerate Alexander as a prophet (there is a mosque in his honour in Cairo somewhere and there is an embalmed body in the basement of that mosque that some say could actually be the remains of Alexander but who knows?) There is a place in Syria that is said to have the graves of three of Alexander's sons - Muslims ask for favours of them by crawling on all fours around the graves while invoking them etc.

There is also the tradition of invoking a "Prophet Iskander" in Ethiopia and I don't know if this is a reference to Alexander the Great - I once read there are areas of Ethiopia where he too is honoured as a prophet by Christians - a carry-over from Islam.

When Alexander died (after sustaining his 21st wound which apparently involved a poisoned weapon) a richly appointed and mobile tomb was made for him, he was honoured as a god and the tomb moved around to different places. The Coptic Church was especially very much against any cult to Alexander for obvious reasons. But the Star of Vergina, usually in its eight-pointed variety, survived and some say this was what the Roman soldiers used on their shields, helmets and vexillols seeing as they saw themselves as the inheritors of the Alexander tradition. IF this is true, then the Star of Vergina in its 8-pointed version is what was later adopted as a form of the Cross.

Alex