www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology My visit to a ROCOR parish

Dear Friends,

What would you have said or done?

Alex

Alex:

This pains me very much. It reminds me of the time I attended an Antiochian Orthodox Conference on Evangelism. One one particular evening, we all joined hands and formed a circle to pray. People took turns offering their prayer requests. One woman prayed that "the uniates would return to Orthodoxy". It was a deliberate dig-I was the only Eastern Catholic in attendance and everyon knew it.

I like the saying of a wise Bishop: "We are an illustration of an aspiration", meaning, we ECs are a sign of what "should be"...

I can't offer any advice on what you should have done. You are a bigger person than I however. I wouldn't have been able to get past the anger and hurt of her comments...

Rather than singling out a specific group, I prefer to pray that all people will embrace Orthodoxy. I love and respect my Catholic brethren dearly (Roman and Eastern), but we must realize that our two Churches each claim to be exclusively the true Church of Christ in the fullest sense of that term. It ought to be the desire of Roman and Eastern Catholics that the Orthodox return to communion with the Roman Church and it ought to be the desire of the Orthodox that the Roman Church abandon certain claims about herself and return, with the Eastern Catholic Churches, to holy Orthodoxy. But, I think that we can be honest about this and still loving and respectful.
Joe

Joe:

Alex offered his experience, I offered mine. I do not believe my experience is indicative of all of Orthodoxy. I was merely drawing a comparison between these two Orthodox attitudes toward Eastern Catholics.

I believe both Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy have the true faith. RCs are not meant to practice Orthodoxy and vice versa. Should they unite, each would retain its own liturgical tradition.

A fundamental problem as I see it is the interpretation of Christ's prayer "that all may be one". It seems to me that Orthodoxy interprets that to mean "that all return/convert to the Orthodox faith." Correct me if I am wrong.

Anna,

I don't think you are wrong. I think that the view, generally, held among Orthodox (especially Orthodox hierarchs and theologians) is that Rome and the Churches in communion with her have departed from the fullness of Orthodoxy. What differs among Orthodox is what we make of that. Some, such as myself, see the Roman Catholic Churches as having the substance of the faith, but as having added to it in a way that obscures the faith. Others (the polemical anti-ecumenical folk) would say that anyone who is not Orthodox is fully outside the Orthodox faith. I do not share their view.

If you look at the writings of the CDF, especially the note on the phrase "Sister Churches" it is pretty clear that Rome does not think that the Orthodox are the one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is the fullest sense. According to official Catholic teaching, the Church of Christ subsists in the Church of Rome and those Churches in union with her. Even the Orthodox Churches, as particular true Churches, lack something that would make them the one, holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and that something is communion with the See of Peter (Rome). Such is the Catholic view.
Joe

7. The first papal document in which the term sisters is applied to the Churches is the Apostolic Brief Anno ineunte of Paul VI to the Patriarch Athenagoras I. After having indicated his willingness to do everything possible to �re-establish full communion between the Church of the West and that of the East,� the Pope asked: �Since this mystery of divine love is at work in every local Church, is not this the reason for the traditional expression �sister Churches,� which the Churches of various places used for one another? For centuries our Churches lived in this way like sisters, celebrating together the ecumenical councils which defended the deposit of faith against all corruption. Now, after a long period of division and mutual misunderstanding, the Lord, in spite of the obstacles which arose between us in the past, gives us the possibility of rediscovering ourselves as sister Churches.�[3]

8. The expression has been used often by John Paul II in numerous addresses and documents; the principal ones, in chronological order, are the following.

In the Encyclical Slavorum Apostoli: �For us they [Cyril and Methodius] are the champions and also the patrons of the ecumenical endeavour of the sister Churches of East and West, for the rediscovery through prayer and dialogue of visible unity in perfect and total communion.�[4]

In a Letter from 1991 to the Bishops of Europe: �Hence, with these Churches [the Orthodox Churches] relations are to be fostered as between sister Churches, to use the expression of Pope Paul VI in his Brief to the Patriarch of Constantinople, Athenagoras I.�[5]

In the Encyclical Ut unum sint, the theme is developed above all in number 56 which begins in this way: �Following the Second Vatican Council and in the light of earlier tradition, it has again become usual to refer to the particular or local Churches gathered around their Bishop as �sister Churches.� In addition, the lifting of the mutual excommunications, by eliminating a painful canonical and psychological obstacle, was a very significant step on the way toward full communion.� This section concludes by expressing the wish that the �traditional designation of �sister Churches� should ever accompany us along this path.� The topic is taken up again in number 60 of the Encyclical: �More recently, the joint international commission took a significant step forward with regard to the very sensitive question of the method to be followed in re-establishing full communion between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, an issue which has frequently embittered relations between Catholics and Orthodox. The commission has laid the doctrinal foundations for a positive solution to this problem on the basis of the doctrine of sister Churches.�[6]

II. Directives on the use of the expression

9. The historical references presented in the preceding paragraphs illustrate the significance which the expression sister Churches has assumed in the ecumenical dialogue. This makes the correct theological use of the term even more important.

10. In fact, in the proper sense, sister Churches are exclusively particular Churches (or groupings of particular Churches; for example, the Patriarchates or Metropolitan provinces) among themselves.[7] It must always be clear, when the expression sister Churches is used in this proper sense, that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Universal Church is not sister but mother of all the particular Churches.[8]

11. One may also speak of sister Churches, in a proper sense, in reference to particular Catholic and non-catholic Churches; thus the particular Church of Rome can also be called the sister of all other particular Churches. However, as recalled above, one cannot properly say that the Catholic Church is the sister of a particular Church or group of Churches. This is not merely a question of terminology, but above all of respecting a basic truth of the Catholic faith: that of the unicity of the Church of Jesus Christ. In fact, there is but a single Church,[9] and therefore the plural term Churches can refer only to particular Churches.

Consequently, one should avoid, as a source of misunderstanding and theological confusion, the use of formulations such as �our two Churches,� which, if applied to the Catholic Church and the totality of Orthodox Churches (or a single Orthodox Church), imply a plurality not merely on the level of particular Churches, but also on the level of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church confessed in the Creed, whose real existence is thus obscured.

12. Finally, it must also be borne in mind that the expression sister Churches in the proper sense, as attested by the common Tradition of East and West, may only be used for those ecclesial communities that have preserved a valid Episcopate and Eucharist.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, June 30, 2000, the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.


+ Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect

Dear Friends,

I was privileged to visit a ROCOR parish on the Sunday of All Saints of Rus' in Western New York.

It is an all-English parish and beautifully appointed. The Presbytera welcomed me warmly and showed me around. When she asked me what church I attend, I told her that I was Ukrainian Catholic - since I am.

For the next 15 or so minutes I was told that ECism and Orthodoxy are not the same thing - and I said that I knew that.

She told me that I should pray about becoming Orthodox, consider it, ponder it and just go ahead and "do it!"

She was so very nice that I didn't have the heart to say anything that might be construed as being disagreeable.

Certainly, the parish is as Orthodox as Orthodoxy gets with all sorts of converts from various backgrounds.

I had the privilege of venerating the icon of All Saints of Rus' that was there and also the relics of some of those very Saints honoured on that day.

Undoubtedly, I felt totally disarmed by this sincere, welcoming and pious woman who was, at the same time, completely convinced I was in the wrong and needed to "get right" by God by becoming Orthodox.

I didn't go there to begin a religious discussion. Indeed, I fear that if we had one, there would be more points of agreement between us than otherwise and this would have only "stoked the fire" of her effort to get me to come full circle and become Orthodox.

And she was totally O.K. with the rosary/rule of the Theotokos too and says it herself!

I felt uncomfortable at her attempt to convert me and yet it wasn't so bad. Under the circumstances, just didn't know what to say and somehow didn't feel the need to say anything.

What would you have said or done?

Alex

Ana,

Rather than singling out a specific group, I prefer to pray that all people will embrace Orthodoxy. I love and respect my Catholic brethren dearly (Roman and Eastern), but we must realize that our two Churches each claim to be exclusively the true Church of Christ in the fullest sense of that term. It ought to be the desire of Roman and Eastern Catholics that the Orthodox return to communion with the Roman Church and it ought to be the desire of the Orthodox that the Roman Church abandon certain claims about herself and return, with the Eastern Catholic Churches, to holy Orthodoxy. But, I think that we can be honest about this and still loving and respectful.