www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology My visit to a ROCOR parish

Dear Orest,

You are right - that is why I held my tongue. Frankly, we weren't going to change each other.

I visited her church as politely as possible, bowed to the icons and venerated them as she introduced me to them, reverenced the hand of her priestly husband (and hers too) with a kiss. I also bought a prayerbook, a prayer rope and some other items that I treasure and derive great spiritual benefaction from.

Ultimately, it was an issue of politeness on my part to keep my mouth shut and not cause a scene. However, because of my own EC views on Orthodoxy, as the Administrator, for example, indicated above, I didn't feel moved to disagree with what she said and the thought "I am Orthodox too" was there but it would have caused problems if I voiced that - especially since I already admitted I was a member of the UGCC.

I have since learned that she and her husband are both converts to Orthodoxy and so . . . you know . . .

Ultimately, I feel no compunction about agreeing with her earnest request that I prayerfully consider becoming Orthodox.

For me, "becoming Orthodox" is a life-long process anyway, and I hope I become "more Orthodox" every day in what is a fascinating and spiritually fulfilling journey.

I'm not sorry I visited that English-language ROCOR parish (the first one in NA!) and it was nice to see that when a parish adopts the English language, there is still much of the Orthodox faith and praxis that continues unabated!

Surrounded by the glory of Orthodoxy in that parish, I was really inspired and wanted to fall down in worship. That is the kind of parish that is and they are to be congratulated!

Alex

Dear Borislave,

We have an agreement on this forum. Catholics don't call Orthodox "schismatics" and Orthodox don't call Catholics "heretics." At least not since 1963

And Mary used the term "schism" to apply to herself and to no one else, least of all the break between East and West.

Mary is feisty - she'll give you two punches for your one. That just makes it all so much more fun!!

Alex

<snort!!>....<hoot!>...

but we HAVE been warned!!!

You should not do that to me when I have just bitten into a good sloppy sammich!!...You should see my poor old monitor!!

M.

Dear Mary,

You are just so incredibly wonderful, you know!

I think the Administrator holds a grudging admiration and esteem for you (and for me, as I like to think!)

Alex

Dear Alex,

I honestly don't understand what difference it makes in your faith if you are officially 'Orthodox' or 'Catholic'. To me this always seems like nothing more than triumphalism and self love.

Honestly, it is not as if God will ask anyone at the dreadful judgement seat, "Hmmmm...now which prelate of what persuasion of the great schism did you affiliate yourself with"????

I humbly suggest that persons be more absorbed with their personal salvation (which is hard enough for all of us) than with the ecclesiastical affiliation of others.

Alice

I hope Borislav does not miss this.

And better ye vent yer vinegar on me and Alex and Alice privately and save yer greater sweetness for the rest...heh!

Mary

It isn't when it is the faith of your Baptism, and if you've promised in your life to be obedient to the legitimate authority of Church.

M.

Dear Alice,

Congratulations! When did you become a Catholic?!

Have a nice day . . .

Your humble servant,

Alex

Gocha.

Thanks for showing me the door yet again. I'll try to learn to be as kind and forgiving as you are.

Dear Borislave,

Never you mind.

When it comes right down to it, Catholic or Orthodox, we Ukies stick together!!!

And in order to do that, we need honey, not vinegar!

Alex

I won't comment on the former statement, but the latter one is correct. In light of that statement it is not only understandable that the Matushka would engage in the line of discussion she did, but one must also say it is in a respect her duty to do so. We all have the duty to proclaim the Gospel, and for her, that means bringing people to the church which she believes has maintained it in fullness. I don't know that it would, should, does matter to her if in theory the person she is talking to shares 1%. 50%, or 99% of the beliefs she does. One may theorize that other groups have true sacraments, but from her viewpoint there is no assurance that this is the case.

Perhaps we are afraid, uncomfortable, etc. to discuss these issues face to face; or we have become culturally conditioned not to try and bring other people in to our church. She wasn't held back by that, and she spoke and acted to openly profess what she believes. If she did so in charity and kindness, I don't see a problem with that. Showing the willingness to do things that others view as uncomfortable, distasteful and so on in some ways is even to be commended.


Ditto.


Alice, I must say I cannot imagine any Orthodox priest agreeing with this statement.

Dear AMM,

You are correct, of course, but I'm wondering if there is a time and a place for the good Matushka's witness in that way.

I have frequently taken strangers around our church to explain what everything signifies. I've invited them to attend church services and to experience more.

But I can't imagine telling them to prayerfully consider converting to the true Church right there and then. That would definitely be a turn-off (as it was for me).

This experience came at a bad time since I was finally getting over a couple of hang-ups in this area.

I had long been on the opposing side of the views of the Administrator and even of our Father DIAKon with respect to going "too much" re: visiting Jordanville and ROCOR parishes.

Learning from them, buying their excellent books and icons, yes -and also the odd visit - but anything more than that - not really.

And I remember the dismay with which the Administrator responded to me on that score (and on a number of others too!).

So either the Administrator doesn't tell them who he is when he visits a ROCOR parish or else he hasn't yet had the privilege of meeting certain Matushka's!

Alex

But therein lies the twist. Most of us, regular people can not cross the sea on a little one man boat. That is why we cling to our ships.

With all due respect, Alice, I completely disagree, and if this is the kind of honey Admin speaks of I can but continue to spew my vinegar.

We have this in common.

Can you explain to me why I should be swayed by arguments against what my Church teaches, when what is being argued is NOT what my Church teaches?

What do you do when people mis-represent Orthodox teaching either without a shred of evidence or with absolute refusal to hear or see anything else?

Mary