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Again, it depends upon one's terminology, certainly from an Augustinian perspective this statement presents a problem, but that is because Augustine reduced human activity in the process of salvation to almost nothing. But in Eastern terminology it is possible to distinguish, as St. Maximos the Confessor does, between redemption, which is universal, that is, the gift of being and ever being, which God alone does, and salvation, which man does. Certainly I would not word it is Zenovia does, but I take her comments in the sense implied by St. Maximos in his writings, that is, ever being -- like being -- is given by God alone, but whether a man's ever being is ever well being or ever ill being is in his own power.

Dear Daniel,

Weren't we given a 'free will' to choose whether we will turn to God or not? Theosis I believe is the growth of 'perfection' within ourselves, (when we turn to God), and that spiritual perfection makes us more God like.

Of course that growth and perfection cannot be achieved without God's Grace. That is understood. We though must be open to it. Saving ourselves then is really in our own hands, (or hearts), as they say?

Heresy! Heresy! Oh my gosh, they're lighting the stake...now I've done it! All is lost.

Zenovia

Dear Daniel,

Lookin at the statement that I said, "It is not God saving us, but rather we are saving ourselves," I realize now that it could really be taken wrong.

Zenovia

Agreed; I think I knew what you meant by it. When speaking theologically one must tread with care and be precise...
-D

So basically if you like what the CHurch says then you can remain Catholic, but if they are not hardcore enough you feel as though you have to go to the Orthodox Church, (in which case you would hope the Pope is right and there is salvation outside the Catholic Church.)