www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Obama: Men Should 'Stop Acting Like Boys'

Gotta recognize a pro-family statement coming from a Democratic leader when you see one.

Good for Obama!

Gordo

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/6/15/145919.shtml?s=ic

Thanks for this one - I missed it, but I'm doing what I can to keep track of Obama's campaign. So far I would certainly prefer him to Senator Clinton.

Fr. Serge

Actually there are some interesting theological implications to his statement:

"What makes you a man is not the ability to have a child but the courage to raise a child."

Too often Father's are regarded as unnecessary and absent sperm donors, which is why IVF is regarded favorably by some radical feminists.

Fatherhood also means giving spiritual and moral life to your child - the formation of character and of Christian manhood. I believe that is why St. Paul told Timothy to regard a father's management of his household so highly when considering him for the vocation of bishop - spiritual father - in the household of God.

Of course, the bishop is also the icon of the Fatherhood of God, who not only is the source of life as our Creator, but through His two hands, His Word and His Spirit, redeems and divinizes the whole cosmos.

Anyway, I agree that it's great that Obama sees the importance of fatherhood to society. Of course, he also tragically favors protecting the destruction of life through abortion...a very un-fatherly practice. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if he stood up for the protection of human life? The Presidency is, in many ways, an image of fatherhood to the nation.

In ICXC,

Gordo

Dear Gordo,

Our unemployment level in this country is very, very, low. So low that without the illegals a great deal of production will stop. I know in my area, we would not be able to have gardeners, construction workers etc. So to say that we've lost thousands of manufacturing jobs, without saying that our economy has many other openings, is really non-sensical...and basically politically motivated.

Again, if the manufacturing jobs were to be back in this country, everything would become so much more expensive, that we would all be living at a lower standard of living. The best thing would be to stop all the taxes and rules and regulations that hinders people from opening small business'. Let good old fashioned American enteprenurship keep this country aflout.

As for Obama, I had heard that he had attended a Madrassah in Pakistan when he was young.

God Bless,

Zenovia

I've heard that President G. W. Bush had some interesting experiences while dodging a criminal record when HE was young!

Fr. Serge

Zenovia,

I find it problematic when a country exports the means of production, even if it makes goods cheaper. (The morality of cheap labor and its effect on local economies is another matter. Not everything is positive.) If the so-called "knowledge economy" collapses, what then? Are we trading ourselves into dependencies that will be difficult to eliminate later on?

I think we are in for heap-big trouble...

Gordo

PS: As to whether or not he attended a Madrassah in Pakistan when he was young, it matters not to me. He will not receive my vote. I just wanted to acknowledge something positive that he said.

Dear Gordo,

Our whole economic system is dangerous, and it frightens me. Yes it creates wealth throughout the world, and that is needed. Yet we are losing our knowledge of how to survive in case some catastrophy occurs. If there was a way for every town or entity to be partially self sufficient, without completely losing the trade benefits of a world economy, it would be better. Or so I think!

God Bless,

Zenovia

I haven't heard that one, but I did hear that Barak Obama's middle name is Hussein, and he's a Muslim extremist. Hee, hee, hee!

God Bless,

Zenovia

Yes, and President Bush dodged his national guard duty; a derelict soldier he was, yet the Republican establishment had the gall to give him the presidential nomination after calling President Clinton a draft dodger.

Joe

You cannot simply look at the unemployment rate and assume that because it is low that things are good. For one thing, most black men live in economically impoverished areas. They don't live where the jobs are and they do not have the means to get to the places where the jobs are (not to mention the fact that the middle class whites do not want blacks moving into their neighborhoods). Secondly, most new jobs that are created are low wage service jobs with no benefits, or with benefits that are so expensive that the working class can't afford to pay for them. And thirdly, it is true that there would likely be some price inflation and lower profit margins if we created and enforced strong labor, immigration, and trade protection laws. But it would actually be the upper classes who would notice it the most, since their luxury products would likely raise in price significantly. Certainly most good would raise in price, but overall this would encourage people to live within their means and not be wasteful. As it is, the super cheap labor that companies get these days does not help the working poor, it helps the corporations and the upper middle class (going up) who get services and goods super cheap. The working poor are still out of luck.

Joe

Here is an example of the cost of benefits these days. At my wife's company, family health insurance coverage is nearly $1000 month. This is the premium for all employees, CEO or janitor. How are the bottom level employees (making $7-8 per hour) supposed to afford this? When I was in college, I worked at a nursing home. I knew several women there who had kids (often 3 or more), worked full time, but could not afford the monthly health insurance premiums. So, they didn't take the health insurance offered to them. What happens in these cases? Well, when a medical emergency happens, they either go into significant debt or they don't get the treatment that they need. I know many people, personally, who could not get basic medicine, surgery, or other treatment because they did not have insurance. These were working people who made too much to qualify for medicaid and not enough to buy health insurance.

For most Americans, life is good. But what most middle class Americans don't see are the millions of people in rural areas and in the inner city who have no education, no health benefits, work for meager wages, and have virtually no hope of moving up. If you look at the economic policies of the Republicans, you see that they are all aimed at the middle class and up. Yes, it is a good thing for middle class folks to have low income and property taxes. It makes it much easier to buy a mercedes and a $200,000 house. If we had higher property and income taxes, then we might only be able to buy a Saturn and live in a $150,000 house. But, the working poor, who do not pay much in taxes anyway, are shut off from the services and entitements that they need in order to have a decent quality of life.

There is a reason why we have social security, medicare, medicaid, welfare, etc. today. It is because life for most people really was worse prior to the 1940s. Most women did work in the factory with their husbands and often, their children. People lost limbs in industrial accidents and were not compensated. People who desperately needed medication died because they couldn't afford it. Life may have been good for the middle classes, but it was not for the working poor. It never has been. So, I will say that for the common good of society, the wealthier classes do have the moral obligation to risk a less rich standard of living in order for those at the bottom of society to get a helping hand up. And the Churches and charities can't do it. If they could, we would have never needed government and social reforms. It is the responsibility of government to promote the good of all of its citizens and that includes structural reform when necessary.

Joe

I'm a white male home owner residing in a middle class suburb, and I have lived for 21 of the last 29 years of my life with no medical insurance of any kind. Because of issues like that I get a little sick of still hearing the race card being played and how hard other people have it. Rather than the endless racial blame game I prefer to hear the wisdom of Bill Cosby who challenged his community to stop blaming others for their own failures.

I have witnessed instances in which members of various racial minorities have claimed racial discrimination and such claims, in my opinion, were made for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage-not because such discrimination occurred. However, I have witnessed far too much racial bigotry to be able to accept the idea that the white majority bears no responsibility for the problems that face the black community. Many people scream racism because it is still alive and well in America.

Ryan

Yes, racism is still a major problem in the USA - the easiest way to become convinced of that is to notice the proportion of African-Americans in the general population In the US, and compare that figure to the proportion of African-Americans in the prisons.

And yes, serious deprivation is not confined to any specific racial group - one can find shocking poverty in certain specific and largely white communities (I won't name them because I have no wish to embarrass anyone in particular).

And there are other kinds of bigotry as well.

Fr. Serge

Gee, Joe, I thought Dan Rather had already cleared that one up for us. It took some convincing to show that a typed message from the 60's could not have been done on a 21st century word processor but he finally came around. You must keep up with these things.

CDL