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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Umm Amado, Catholics of other rites are not Roman Catholics. The term "Roman Catholic" means Catholic of the Roman Rite and is an accepted & common term for the Latin Catholic Church of the Roman Rite.God Bless.

Larae,

Welcome indeed. I always enjoy your posts over on Catholic Convert. Perhaps we should invite Matthewf over here so he could learn about his church.

Dan Lauffer

Posted by Nik:

"Originally posted by Amado Guerrero:
...welcome Roman Catholics, of all Rites, to this Forum.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Umm Amado, Catholics of other rites are not Roman Catholics. The term "Roman Catholic" means Catholic of the Roman Rite and is an accepted & common term for the Latin Catholic Church of the Roman Rite.God Bless.

Thanks for your sensitive eye. But my welcoming post for LaRae was intended as a pun to the East's inordinate preoccupation, to my personal perception, in her differing and distinct ritual Churches.

However, to fill you in on the various "rites" of the Roman Catholic Church, or the Latin Church if you will, let's see:

1. Roman:

The overwhelming majority of Latin Catholics and of Catholics in general(about a Billion of us) belong to this Rite. The current Roman Rite is that of the 1969 Missale Romanum (or the Novus Ordo to you), published in a third edition in 2001.

There are 2 sub-rites (rescensions?) allowed by the Vatican for use by specified groups, to wit:

(a) Missal of 1962 (Tridentine Mass):

Some institutes within the Roman Rite, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, have the faculty to celebrate the sacramental rites according to the forms in use prior to the Second Vatican Council. This faculty can also be obtained by individual priests from their bishop or from the Pontifical Council Ecclesia Dei.

(b)Anglican Use:

Since the 1980s the Holy See has granted some former Anglican and Episcopal clergy converting with their parishes the faculty of celebrating the sacramental rites according to Anglican forms, doctrinally corrected.

2. Mozarabic:

The Rite of the Iberian peninsula (Spain and Portugal) known from at least the 6th century, but probably with roots to the original evangelization. Beginning in the 11th century it was generally replaced by the Roman Rite, although it has remained the Rite of the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Toledo, Spain, and six parishes which sought permission to adhere to it. Its celebration today is generally semi-private.

3. Ambrosian:

The Rite of the Archdiocese of Milan, Italy, thought to be of early origin and probably consolidated, but not originated, by St. Ambrose. Pope Paul VI was from this Roman Rite. It continues to be celebrated in Milan, though not by all parishes.

4. Bragan:

Rite of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal, it derives from the 12th century or earlier. It continues to be of occasional use.

5. Dominican:

Rite of the Order of Friars Preacher (OP), founded by St. Dominic in 1215.

6. Carmelite:

Rite of the Order of Carmel, whose modern foundation was by St. Berthold c.1154.

7. Carthusian:

Rite of the Carthusian Order founded by St. Bruno in 1084.

Am I missing something?

AmdG

[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: Amado Guerrero ]

Dear Amado,

Yes you are!

The Premonstratensians and the Cistercians have their Rites as well (Cistercians pray to the Mother of God with knuckles on the ground for example).

The Mozarabic Rite is now permitted to be used generally throughout Spain, if parishes so wish.

The Anglican liturgy was doctrinally and liturgically "completed" rather than "corrected."

Some of the old City variations on the Roman Rite are still in use locally.

There are the Celtic, Sarum, Hereford, Bangor, Gallican and Trondheim Rites - but they only exist as portions of the Latin Rite that is used in the regions where these used to flourish.

The Old Believers likewise have a Liturgy of St Peter which is a form of the Western Gregorian Mass, celebrated only on St Peter's Day, just as the Byzantine Liturgy of Sts. Mark and James are celebrated only on their feast days.

Also, while it is true the overwhelming majority of Western Catholics belong to the Latin Rite, NO, their actual numbers can be misleading.

The RC Church counts its members on the basis of baptism.

This means that when their members might, later on in life, become communist guerrillas, they are still counted as "faithful members of the Holy Catholic Church."

Alex

Dear Alex:

I limited myself to those Rites of the Latin Church "officially" recognized by the Vatican.

I think the "Annuario" is based on BOTH baptismal records and current registration in every Catholic parish worldwide. Of course, there may be unavoidable statistical errors.


AmdG

Hi Dan,

Have you ever done an "invite" on the CC board....so anyone there interested could come?

I know very little about the Byzantine rite (is it a rite?) and I saw a segement on EWTN recently about it which pushed me to learn more (I have wondered about Byzantines at other times).

Anyway, glad to be here

LaRae

Dear Amado,

Yes, I knew you did, but it's always fun to delve into the other "once upon a time" Rites, eh?

As for the other matter, I just always found it ironic how many red guerrillas in Latin America named "Jesus" there are . . .

Alex

Dear Alex:

Yeah, I know.

I still remember Fr. Jess (may he rest in peace!), a Filipino Roman Catholic priest friend of mine, who went underground during the 70's "to advance the cause" of his liberation theology!

But, probably, some of them are "warriors" for Jesus Christ?

AmdG

And the Orthodox Church holds up as shining examples of its members, people like Senator Paul Sarbanes (D-MD), an "Archon of the Ecumenical Patriarchate."

...Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions.

...Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions.

...Voted NO on disallowing overseas military abortions.

Archon of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

LaRae,

Yes, I have frequently posted this website's address on the Catholic Convert board. Dianeski usually tells everyone what a bad place this every time I do. But I'll try again.

Lemko Rusyn,

Are you sure that's not "Argon" instead of Archon as in Argon "gas".

Dan Lauffer

[ 08-30-2002: Message edited by: Dan Lauffer ]

Lemko,

The Catholic Church inducted "Don" Michael Corleone into the Order of St. Sebastian - the highest honor the Catholic Church can bestow upon a layman. This was done despite substantial evidence of ties to organized crime, as well as persistent rumors that Michael ordered the murder of his older brother, Fredo.

Anthony

Anthony:

It just goes to show that the Church is full of Saints, Sinners, and...mafiosis!

Perhaps, the Catholic Church (Latin side) saw close affinity with the "Primus Inter Pares" Don Corleone?


AmdG

[ 08-30-2002: Message edited by: Amado Guerrero ]

Dan,

I guess I just missed it when you posted it. Although truthfully I haven't paid very close attention to the debates/discussions about East vs West on the CC board.

Partly because I don't really know much about the issues between East and West....some of the stuff that has been discussed is pretty deep.

Is there a primer somewhere I can look over to see what the Byzantine Church is about?

Don't worry about detractors, God knows His sheep, regardless of "where" you are.

Thanks,

LaRae

LaRae,

You Mentioned:
Is there a primer somewhere I can look over to see what the Byzantine Church is about?

Althought I consider myself a baby Eastern Catholic I was given a book titled "Eastern Christianity: The Byzantine Tradition" by Lawrence Cross and I recommend it.

It is published by Eastern Christian Publications PO Box 146, Fairfax, VA 22030 - I do not have a phone number.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the book. It is about 150 pages and talks about history, the Sacraments, customs, etc. from both an Eastern Catholic and Orthodox perspective. The end of the book treats where things are today and gives further suggestions for reading.

Dan,
I was on Michigan Catholic Radio this morning doing some "southern apologetics from Texas" with John Kruse. We actually talked more about Eastern Christianity and your name came up (all good of course). John mentioned off the air that they will be making a copy of the show you were on and sending it to me. I could forward it if you like. I just need your address.

Hope everyone has a great Labor Day weekend!

Biship Kallistos Ware's book is excellent concerning the mindset of the East.

Look also for the "Philokalia" and a book by a Russian monk titled, "The Way of the Pilgrim".

I think both Bishop Ware's book and "The Way of the Pilgrim" can be purchased at Amazon.com.
I think the Philokalia is online.

I realize that these are Orthodox sources. There is a Byzantine Catechism which is being discussed on another thread here but I've not seen it.

Dan Lauffer