www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Liturgiam Authenticam #30 (On the Use of "Inclusive" Language)

That has nothing to do with the words he is using. Americans, in general, don't seem to understand any message of Love or Truth, and it doesn't seem to matter which words are used to convey them.

Careful my friend--we do not want to generalize here.

I found a website which is serviced by radical feminists who are in favor of women ordination to the priesthood. They are offended by the document "Liturgiam Authenticam".

Here is an excerpt:

Inclusive language in Catholic liturgy has opened the door to women who experience oppression in their own church. It also aids all members of the Church, offering new and creative metaphors for God, a God who is spirit, and was not (and will never be), male. Attempting to slam these doors plunges the Church backwards and denies the advancements that have fueled inclusiveness in the modern Church. It contradicts our earliest traditions, and heralds incorrect translations. As Catholic women, we must take a stand against this instructional. Fight to keep the inclusiveness in your own parish, and make your voice heard as opposition against it. This is a time when we are called to witness that our own oral tradition takes precedence over a document of alienation.
http://www.womensordination.org/pages/art_pages/art_VatBans.html

I pray that the Ruthenian Catholic Church is not headed in this direction.

[Linked Image]

Can't we name these 'well placed' people? Can't we identify exactly where this cancer has come from, invading our Church, and corrupting it with a dangerous and deviant agenda?

Nick

I might be able to name a few such people - but I have no intention of doing so. I prefer intellectual argument to "naming and shaming" (I don't claim, however, that I am always consistent in this matter!).

The real problem is not the individuals, but the concept itself. That is what the Church must rid herself of. People can repent; concepts cannot.

Fr. Serge

Christ describes the Church as his bride.

[now effect a five year child's voice]
I'm a guy. This oppresses me. I demand that it be changed! It's all about me...I've got to be me.....

There are two choices - do we make up our own definitions of who we are OR do we receive them from Christ? The Gospels weren't products of a culture. They were gifts from God and have wisdom in them.

If Recluse does a little more research he will find that this stuff leads to goddess worship. I'll help you - go to www.csec.org/csec/sermon/fragomeni_4122.htm [csec.org]

Get this inclusive trendoid stuff out. "Out, out dam spot!!!"

Recluse has done tons of research on this stuff. Not only does it lead to sophia worship, it also leads to reiki, enneagram, eco-spirituality, wiccan-like rituals, mandalas, etc., etc., etc........

That is why our new reformed Liturgy with inclusive language is so painful for me.

If dropping "men" from the Creed actually was a true development of doctrine, nonetheless, this advice should have been followed:


by Fr. Robert Taft (my emphasis)

http://www.americancatholicpress.org/Father_Taft_Mass_Without_the_Consecration.html

Can I contribute a humorous story?

I've been very busy at work this month. At work we have people in-house from across the country for a very detailed evaluation of our computer software. One woman (a customer) who is in charge of the program at her organization was in-house this week and participated in a national teleconference. At point she praised her assistant and said: "Donna is my right-hand man. She probably knows more about this project than anyone else." I chuckled when I heard it and immediately thought about this discussion. Oh - and not a single participant on the teleconference interrupted to 'correct' her grammar or suggest that Donna was a silly name for a man.

Good one. I hear the same type of talk everyday at the Bank where I work.

Dn. Robert

In solidarity with all those marginalized lefties, I protest the use of such an exclusive term as "right-hand man."

No reputable theologian has ever made a distinction between the value of the soul of a male or a female.

Christ died on behalf of The Father's human creation that sinned initally through Adam and Eve. Christ's Passion and Death redeemed us all.

For us creatures to be nitpicking about who gets referenced in prayers and Scripture seems to me to be, at best, theologically irrational.

Let's use words that make it clear that 'everyone who has breath' (Psalms!!) should praise the name of the Lord. And the plumbing doesn't really make any substantial difference at all.

It's Christ, people, not the foolish translations!! ALL the baptized are moving towards God through their prayers and sacrifices for God and their neighbors. "One Lord, one Faith, one Baptism".

I like Harry Potter. Perhaps we should just use the word: "Muggles" to identify human beings and get it over with. St. Vincent de Paul and Blessed Teresa of Calcutta seem to have gotten the Gospel message; what's wrong with the rest of us??

JB

Oooops! I must acknowledge and edify the remarks of Athanasius the Lesser: I too am left handed, and must adamantly protest the use of "right hand man". (I purchased a left-handed scissors, and take great delight - I'll repent at Great Lent - in giving the scissors to my right-handed friends for their uncoordinated use.) In seminary, during the Hebrew class - writing from right to left - I watched my right handed colleagues smear their writing as I had to do from the beginning with my Palmer Penmanship English. So there!! Retribution!!!

Dr John, The SouthPaw

The problem of course is that by accepting the "wisdom" of the world that certain language is sexist, we implicitly reject Divine Wisdom:


The modern crusade to rid the English language of the "sexist" term, "man," began with a philosophical movement to get rid of God and hence God's book must be rewritten to fit man's enlightened view of God.

The "nitpicking" began with those who insisted that the language be changed, not with those who are insisting that the Divine Liturgy and Creed be translated correctly. I am quite confident that Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta and St. Vincent Depaul would not change their Creed to attract the world to the Church.

Now the Ruthenians have a Creed which, even should the Romans for unity's sake return to the Creed without the filioque, will not agree with the Creed of the West. So much for one Faith.

The new Creed is a sham, accepted by some thoughtlessly, and perpretrated by a few because they do not want to bend their minds to the wisdom of the Church.