www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Ruthenian Seminarians transferred to USA/Canada?

I've been doing a bit of research on some things. Everyone knows we have a shortage of priests of just about every kind in the USA and probably in Canada. I found a website for an organization called the "Catholic Near East Welfare Association." (www.cnewa.org [cnewa.org]) and found some information about each different Byzantine Church and how many priests each one has in each eparchy. It also gives information on seminarians. The site has two yeats listed--2005 and 2006. They were compiled by Ronald G. Robertson, CSP and the source is listed as Annuario Pontificio.

Since I am Ruthenian I checked out those numbers first-in 2005 The Eparchy of Mukacevo in Ukraine had 128 seminarions. Pittsburgh had 1, Parma had 1, Passaic had 1, Van Nuys had 1 and the Czech Republic and 5. Total seminarians--138.

In 2006, Mukacevo Ukraine had 157 seminarians, PIttsburgh 0, Parma 0, Passaic 3, Van Nuys 1 and the Czech Republic had 6. That's a total of 167 seminarians.

Does anyone know of any plans to assign some of these seminarians when they graduate to the USA or Canada? I understand the celibacy issue in North America versus Europe. But it seems to me that the number or people in North America who need a Ruthenian priest may exceed the number of people in Eastern Europe who need Ruthenian priests. I don't have any other figures that the ones I listed. Nor do I know if they are accurate. That's why I listed the source and compiler. Someone may know more about that person and source than I do.

Just a few weeks ago my parish priest was talking during his sermon about how many priests are set to retire in the next year and how the average age of priests in getting up there. Praying for vocations is a great idea, and I do it. But if there is a pool of trained priests in Mukacevo and my priest is running anywhere from three to five parishes and driving enough miles to make OPEC laugh with glee.... I know there will be a language problem. But since I would prefer to see more Church Slavonic added to liturgy, this would not be a bad thing.

Does anyone have any thoughts or more information about this?

S'nami Boh

Tim

Well, but these priests would need to obtain "R" visas in order to come and minister to the US.

That takes time.

Shalom,
Memo

Tim:

Don't know about this in your eparchy, but my pastor made the remark the other day that the word he gets is that priests will be returning to the days when they didn't retire but continued on to the bitter end. So they don't have to worry about retirement.

In Christ,

BOB

Dear Tim,
I am Ukrainian Orthodox but if you let me comment, it sounds like a good idea. Can you suggest it to your consistory?

I would suggest that your church try to get seminarians who are about to complete their studies and let the person complete his last year in seminary in your local Ruthenian seminary in the USA. This way the student would be able to learn English and learn about the local church. Also hopefully, the student would marry a Ruthenian-American girl.
I saw this happen with one of our seminarians who married a 4th generation Ukrainian-Canadian girl and the couple work very well as a team ministry in their appointed parish.

In addition, if you have a Ruthenian student complete his education in the USA, the student would learn about pastoral problems in the USA. Just from my experience of Ukrainian seminaries I know that pastoral theology is somewhat lacking there as part of the curriculum.

There are so many factors in play when it comes to the idea of importing seminarians. As easy as it sounds to go "vocations dipping" in another nation to bring back a plain-full of bright faced happy seminarians to serve as priests here, I just don't know how practical or realistic that could be.

IMHO, the the cultures are so very different and the culture shock is problematic. Also considering that BCS is in the heart of the "Pierogi belt" in the 1990s when this experiment was tried on a limited basis, it was, not without problems. Some of the kids they brought over here got a little overwhelmed with our way of life, but also benifited greatly from some of the higher-placed clergy in the metropolia who saw to it that the sons of our "poor suffering countrymen" wanted for nothing... While some of the native born/converts/non-ethnic/fully assimilated partial "Ruthenians" had to make due on considerably less. "Piotr" & "Volodomyr" had access to cars, cell phones, air plane trips all accross the Metropolia, dinner with the clergy.... Bob & Paul, road the bus, went to McDonald's on occasion, and hoped friends and family back home would help them repair their clunkers and went - frequently - without health insurance.

The intentions were good, the effects were not.

I can't help but wonder also if a surge in vocations from "the other side" wouldn't introduce an ethnic flavor that a good deal of parishes in the metropolia (for good or ill) have lost. My parish today is made up of a hodge-podge of Americans - converts, transfers, lapsed Latins who came back to worship with us, Hispanics, and just plain ethnic "midwesterners". If we were going to get priests from another country, we would do just as well at my parish to get them from Africa or Asia.

Heck, for all the flack "The Journey Home" program on EWTN recieved on this board a month or two back, I frequently watch it and hear stories of Protestant clergy converts to the Catholic Church (especially those that do not qualify for priestly ordination under the terms of the "Pastoral Provision"). I look at some of those guys - who have become Catholic in the hundreds if not thousands - and think to myself "Why can't they become priests for us???? We could use that pastoral experience, that zeal, that fidelity to the teachings of the Catholic Church!"

If anything, we could certainly use a new crop of clergy interested in making converts in our post-Christian culture, rather than simply tending to the status quo or hoping to fill the pews with enough disaffected Romans...

For decades now we have staffed our own parishes in the US with celibate men born here. Now the opportunity to ordain married men is present - far from a boom, we are at an all time low. We have a wider latitude of candiates to choose from, and fewer candidates even stepping forward.

Given the size of some of our smaller parishes, many of them would do well with a married priest or two. Here in my city the OCA parish - smaller than the Greek Catholic parish - has two or three priests attached to it - the senior pastor is a high school teacher, the other priests are older men who were privately trained.

This system is not without flaws, but would or could a Greek Catholic parish be able to be ministered to by an older married man who did not necessarily attend graduate level seminary for several years out of his life? Could a correspondance training program and a formation program be developped allowing for older married men to be trained for the diaconate and then the priesthood while serving in their parish? It seems to me that is what was done in the East for years....

I don't have the answers... but looking to the "homeland" for vocations always seems to come in last on my list of ideas for vocationa rejuvenation.

Amen, Simple Sinner. Amen.

I believe a return in all four eparchies to our tradition of ordaining to the priesthood married men would do much to "rejuvenate" vocations to the priesthood.

Ryan

Thanks for all the responses. I agree that returning to ALL of our traditions would help rejuvenate the Byzantine Ruthenian Church. And I would especially like to see that tradition come back. But I beleive it has been pointed out in other threads on this forum, that the eparchy of Parma, Ohio has already ordained three married men. None of the other Ruthenian eparchies have yet. There is nothing stopping them, it just hasn't been done yet. Why? That's another good question that never seems to get answered! And this Forum is full of them!

In all seriousness, does anyone know if the powers that be, in all areas from any and all Churches, are aware of what the people think? Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic, Orthodox? Do they care to know? Are they aware of this Forum? Do they read the Forums or have someone read them and report to them? Is there even the slightest interest as to what the person sitting in the pew thinks? I seem to remember from history that some of the best rulers were those that used to dress up as humble citizens and walk around their cities at night, trying to get the pulse of the people. Yes, it was used by a few bad apples too, but overall, it seems as if it's a valid thing for someone in a management position to do--if not talk directly with people, they can read what is being written. Surely they aren't that pressed for time!

Tim

The Byzantine Catholic Church in America has the highest priest/ people ratio of any Church. We are spoiled for priests (even though the clergy are elderly, and this is a conern), the people can barely support the number of clergy they have now.

What other Catholic Church has a priest for each 100 to 200 of its faithful?

The sad fact, is that the number of faithful is being reduced, at an even greater rate than the number of clergy. In many parishes, the real danger is that it will be the elderly priest, who will be the last one to turn out the light.

With no strategy for growth, renewal, or evangelization to speak of.... this Church has put much of its finances (more than 2 million dollars) and so much of its energy into a debacle, called 'revising' the ancient and beautiful Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom, I call it ruining our beautiful tradition. A great act of faith in the future....

But then that is probably off topic....

But my point, is that this Church doesn't have a priest crisis, it has an identity crisis.

Nick

When I interviewed Bishop Jan Babjak two years ago, the question was asked to him if he would consider sending priests to America.

We were in Presov Cathedral where he was getting ready to ordain 6 new priests that Sunday in 2005. He told us that Presov Diocese has the problem of too many priests and nowhere to put them.

When the question was asked, he simply stated, "I would be more than happy to send priests to you. Your bishop simply needs to request it." These are the direct words of Bishop Babjak.

Now, the real question is, why doesn't our Archbishop request priests from the homeland? Too afraid of married priests? (I personally know priests that left the Byzantine Rite because the bishop would not ordain them) Too afraid that the culture may be kept, (e.g. Rusyn, Slovak, Hungarian, Croatian, etc. Keeping the traditional Slavonic Liturgy instead of this nonsense Revised Divine Liturgy)? Too afraid of the language barrier (which I do not believe, just simply look at other Eastern churches).

Too bad we cannot do what we have done when our ancestors came to this country, request our own priests.

I guess that we just have to keep praying that one day, Pittsburgh will again ordain married priests...

Church in communion with Rome probably no other...Eastern Christian Churches...pretty common...

Chris

A simple request is not as simple as it may seem. There are tremendous cultural differences that can hurt the situation more than help it. I believe it was earlier in this thread, it was stated that we should have some of them finish seminary studies here so they can get into the american mind...I think that would be a big help...although I have seen a few people on the UGCC side who came to seminary studies in the US and became too americanized and didn't finish...

Chris

This costs money, doesn't it? has anyone done a cost analysis of supporting such clergy and their families? Can a Byzantine community of ten families finance a pastor?

Why is the number of seminarians in the US Byzantine Catholic church so low comparied to others? Doesn't any Byzantine Catholic man in the US want to be a priest?

I hear a lot about married priests, but is thta granted to all Byzantine Catholic priests?

Maybe women can enter the ministry and take over priest jobs? i know of some Roman Catholilc nuns who run a parish or two but aren't allowed to say mass. Wouldn't opening the doors to women priests make the Byzantine Catholic church seem to be more open and contemporary? I am sure this would diminish the need for foregin priests. If men in the US don't want to wear the collar then maybe it is time to hand over the responsibility to others?

If women cannot be preists then what is keeping the men from becoming priests? I can't understand the numbers given above. There are so many posters here on these forums that know so much about religion and Christ that it behooves me to think that they never thought of offering themselves to the work of the Lord.

How difficult is it to become a priest in the Byzantine Catholic church? Is it easier in those other countries? Will the seminary that is used here close?

Eddie

A study was once done on the average age of pastors in different churches. I just looked for my notes on this study and there was a reference to the Byzantine Catholic church. The average age of a Byzantine Catholic priest in the U.S. is 64 years. It listed the same communities given above (Pittsburgh, Passaic, Parma and Van Nuys). Is this the same Byzantine Catholic church represented on this website?

Eddie

Ed,

Yes, I believe it is.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+