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Yes, I agree we are in dire need of cantorial education. But what I have seen so far is a very over simplification of the music. Case in point, the Levkulic English translation of Prostopinije may have not been perfect, but most of it was good enough for it's purpose, the transition from the immigrant Church Slavonic books to a new English book for the post-immigrant generations. The music for the Tropars and Kondaks and Prokimens were fine, not needing any corrections. The melodies for these parts of the Divine Liturgy are not that difficult to sing. Why were these rewritten? These were not that difficult to sing. Again, a lack of concern by our hierarchs and a lack or respect for our venerable Prostopinije Chant, "plain" and simple! Ung-Certez 
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I refer the brethren to Fr. Prof. Alkividas Calivas' brilliant work "Holy Week and Pascha" published by Holy Cross Press, Brookline Massachusetts.
He, at length, describes the original Paschal Vigil, the later addition of a second midnight Liturgy, the moving of the first (St. Basil's Vesperal Divine Liturgy) to Saturday morning, etc. etc.
An excellent book!! Now, if I could only get it back from the priest to whom I lent it.
In Christ, Andrew
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I haven't had time until tonight, to read much of this exchange, but feel compelled to enter into it now. I recall preparing several posts for the thread on this topic which I believe was active last season. Being a student of the liturgy for many years, I find this particular theme to be both extremely interesting and crucially important to the integrity and flow of the liturgy. While this discussion has been lively with important points made by all, there seem to be several points that are misconstrued, I think out of a sincere belief that they are correct.
The paschal liturgy is important because it is the liturgical heart of the year. Especially in the Ruthenian "South-West Rus'" recension, the post-Easter liturgy possesses a particular charism of its own, because of the intensity with which it is celebrated and known by the faithful. This reflects in both formal rubrical practices and informal intricacies or traditions that make the usage, in my opinion, beautifully unique and special. An example of the latter would be the fact that there is probably no service sung so beautifully by the people as a funeral during the Eastertide, both during Bright Week in particular and the paschal season as a whole. At least this was true of the chant in Church Slavonic and has in many places become true of the English paschal melodies as well. The paschal stichera were known by heart and sung throughout the season, as is proper at the "kissing of the Cross." It's just an example, but one I feel is noteworthy.
In most all recensions, the paschal troparion is prescribed to replace the pre and post-communion hymns, especially "We have seen the true light . . . " The Russian vulgate usage returns to singing "May our lips be filled . . . " and "Blessed be the name of the Lord . . . " but use the paschal troparion at the time of the "Glory to the Father . . . " before the dismissal. Greek practice would seem to be more similar to ours. In the Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Kyivan and Galician recensions, ALL the post-communion hymns are replaced by the troparion until Ascension when they are replaced by the prokeimenon of that feast. There is an important liturgical rhythm to maintain, that follows the liturgy through until Pentecost, when, as returning to usual, the hymns "We have seen the true light . . . " and "Heavenly King . . . " are again sung. Singing those and the other hymns instead of "Christ is risen . . . " in Ruthenian, South-West Rus' churches would be like singing "Alleluia" in Roman Catholic churches during Lent. It just is not and has never been done this way. It is not expressive of the uniqueness of the particular tradition. Sometimes, organic development has to be considered over "historical correctness" even from the insights of the best of liturgical scholars. Besides, the people do have an affinity for the "received" paschal liturgy, so why destroy this good quality?
The idea of "tuning down" the paschal liturgy after Bright Week is not relevant because the usage already has prescribed how the liturgy is to be taken throughout Paschaltide, and it is laid out in the Typikon (traditional, not any "revised" or "pastorally sensitive" interpretations of it). There is a lot of difference between Bright Week services and those during the other weeks of Pascha and many are obvious: (a) the doors are closed in most churches; (b) blessings are no longer given exclusively with the hand cross {the handcross use during Pascha is an important part of the Ruthenian Easter time} except on Sundays; (c) the weeks have their own themes instead of using the actual texts of Pascha; (d) the usual third antiphon is used; (e) the dismissal uses only "Christ our true God, 'risen from the dead . . .'" rather than the entire troparion, and other things. So, there should be no confusing of Bright Week and the rest of the season with the recension as it has been received.
There is the tendency, on the part of a certain type of Ruthenian priest, to "exaggerate" the Paschal season by extending "some" of the practice of Bright Week into the rest of the season, by letting all the iconostasis doors be open until Ascension, but this is not the norm but rather only practiced by a few priests of what some call the "high Greek Catholic" style.
Regarding the order of services on Holy Saturday, there is no one easy solution other than following the typikon and the tradition. Since most admit that Passion Week is considered "outside of time" the services do not always correspond to their intended physical time. But, there is such a thing as "liturgical time" as the drama of Passion Week unfolds. Therefore, and especially if one is able to celebrate "all" of the possible services, some may be celebrated at times other than they were originally written for, but have become traditional and practical at certain other times. Strasti or Matins with the 12 Gospels works on Thursday evening in most parishes and so on. The OCA in particular is committed to these "reverted time" services and does most all of Passion Week in anticipation, so why can't we. Are we constrained by physical time in our liturgical life? To be slavish to such, especially at such a crucial time as the Passion Week, disturbs the rhythm of the liturgy. This is especially important because the services and the movement and decoration of the church are meant to "recreate" the saving events of the Passion and Resurrection, as if they were occurring in our midst.
There is nothing wrong with celebrating the Liturgy of St. Basil with Vespers on Holy Saturday morning, regardless of its origin as the baptismal Easter Vigil. If it works for some parishes in the evening, the so be it, but in most of our parishes, that is not the case. It is true that the service in the morning is not usually that well attended, but there are those churches that get a decent crowd. In many places, people are coming to the church to visit the Plashchanitsa, so some choose to come for the liturgy or during it, so there are people at the church. Other preparations are being made, such as the hall and the decorations. It can be a busy time, so the Vesper liturgy does have a pivotal role. Original or not, the accepted or "received" evening service has become Resurrection Matins and the Divine Liturgy of John Chrysostom. Particularly to Ruthenian and Ukrainian churches, Catholic and Orthodox, is to celebrate the Matins by itself, followed by the blessing of paschal food. It is still maintained in many places in the US (and possibly Canada). In many places, the traditional vigil of Nocturns, Resurrection Matins and procession and Divine Liturgy is being introduced, hopefully towards midnight. It is important to note that in the "new immigrant" Ukrainian Catholic and Orthodox parishes today, the more proper celebration of the "vigil" meaning Nocturns or "Nadhrobne," Resurrection Matins and procession and Divine Liturgy is observed out of habit, reflecting the practice in many a city and village in Ukraine today (and I assume Subcarpathian Rus'). In these parishes, it is often taken in the very early morning, around 5 or 6 a.m., another perfectly sensible time to take this combination of services - the very first act of the new day.
To try to "recreate" an early Christian time frame and order of the Passion Week and Pascha services is counter-productive to a meaningful use of the services of the liturgical books. Having a sense of history also means being faithful to the legitimate heritage we have received in our own tradition today. In general, Passion Week services have always gone well in our parishes, at lest until now. If a consensus could be had, I believe that the majority would certainly side with the "received" celebration of Holy Week, together with all the particular other customs associated with this time.
One more item should be addressed. When the original "official" rendition of the Prostopinije was published in English, it was indeed to make a quick and smooth transition into the modern language. This is what is called the "Byzantine Liturgical Chant" or the "black book." It was not printed by the late +Msgr. William Levkulic, (may have had some input, I am not sure), but rather was the product of a collaboration of several priests, chiefly Fr. John Bobak, STD and the present Bishop Andrew Pataki, then a priest. It has received wide spread criticism over the years for not being faithful enough to the original notes, but there was an attempt to make the chant "easier" for American voices to sing. Thus, many more "Eastern" characters were eliminated, such as the "fancier" endings on the troparia and kontakia. Nevertheless, the book did find wide acceptance and "worked" well for what it was intended to do. It is still a major part of the melodies of the liturgy. Before the "BLC" and after it, until today, individual cantors and priests have published material, much of which is more faithful to the more literal musical notation of the prostopinije. It has been of varying quality, but has produced good results lately, through the efforts of those like our esteemed Administrator.
It should be noted that Msgr. Bill Levkulic of blessed memory provided countless parishes, clergy, cantors and people with quality liturgical booklets that were practical and easy to use. It is a ministry of love that began by the simple desire to have books for the people in his own parish and was so successful that almost every church in the Metropolia and in several other jurisdictions make use of them. By his own admission and disclaimer, they may not have always been "exactly" liturgically or musically correct, but it was what worked for him and for many others. Certainly, there are problems for some, but in general his works are excellent resources and liturgically sound. It will be hard to replace his contribution in this regards, which took many hours of work. Indeed, others are making important contributions, however.
To summarize, I believe that, for the most part, Passion Week and Pascha as it has been traditionally celebrated in our parishes has both been uniquely beautiful and practically doable and popular. Except the possibility of including services that may not have been taken in certain places, the "received" order mostly works fine. The same is true of the particular liturgical recension that governs both Bright Week and the remaining paschal season. To change that makes as much sense as changing the acclamation of the anaphora to just, "It is proper and just" eliminating the rest of the hymn. It may have historical precedent or be intellectually correct, but it just is not done anywhere, in any tradition or usage, Orthodox or Greek Catholic. Rather than real liturgical reform, it is anachronistic, putting things in an environment that they have grown away from. The same premise holds true for the "renewal" of the other services, especially the current Divine Liturgy. I say this not only as a liturgical "traditionalist" but also as one who admires and has studied, so much of the work of the current scholars on the liturgy that have influenced some of these reforms or rather, "innovations." Good liturgical sense dictates that the more familiar order of services and rubrics be maintained and made to flourish.
God bless you all.
Fr. Joe
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Originally posted by Fr. Joe:
To change that makes as much sense as changing the acclamation of the anaphora to just, "It is proper and just" eliminating the rest of the hymn. It may have historical precedent or be intellectually correct, but it just is not done anywhere, in any tradition or usage, Orthodox or Greek Catholic. Fr. Joe Dear-to-Christ Fr. Joe, "It is proper and just" without anything further is Greek Orthodox usage. Please see this link [ goarch.org] for substantiation. Tony
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Dr. John,
I agree with you that Matins and the Liturgy should not be separated but how is it bad to go from Lenten to Pascha in one service? Before Cheesefare Sunday, the Vespers of Tuesday and Thursday night start normal and at "Vouchsafe" the whole church switches to Lenten mode since the Wed and Fri of Cheesefare week are Lenten in anticipation. Then on Wed and Fri night, Vespers starts Lenten and ends regular. On Pascha eve, it starts Lenten and then BAM it's Pascha. It is SUPPOSED to hit you hard! No bad psychology here--the Fathers and hierarchs knew what they were doing when they let this happen!
anastasios
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Fr. Joe, thanks for you insight on this matter. I think you stated it very well. I think we are at the point where there are more "borrowed" bi-ritual priests serving parishes in the Ruthenian Metropolia who have no idea what is proper or not proper and just do as they are told. I thank you for speaking your mind in regards to these liturgical matters. I wish more of our priests of the Ruthenian Metropolia would have the guts to do the same. Thank you, Djakuju Krasna! Ung-Certez 
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Thanks for the comments, anastasios. For me, and I think for a lot of others, the total experience of the Great Fast is a complex combination of both liturgical and "day-to-day" realities. I know that during the Fast, I have a tendency to be rather quiet and reflective, perhaps because I get the reminder at both lunch, coffee-break and dinner to avoid the meat and dairy and to watch what I eat. This practice keeps me on track.
For the liturgical cycle, espcecially starting on Great Friday, I don't do much of anything except clean my home, listen (perhaps) to some liturgical cassettes, and drink black coffee. So, I am so used to this "mindset" that when I go to church on Holy Saturday, I'm still in my personal quiet mindset. It seems more 'comfortable' to me to go from quiet personal reflectiveness, to seeing the Paschal light coming through the door. It begins the emotional upswing.
This seems preferable to doing collective liturgical Lenten actions, and then moving liturgically to Pascha without the personal mindset being given a chance to "change clothes" emotionally. As a kid, I remember driving in the car to St. John's (G.O.), all dressed up -- jacket and tie, no less!! -- but still being silent and quiet because it was not yet Anastasi. It was the anticipation - both of Church, and of Nana at home preparing for the Pascha dinner at 2:30 a.m. when we partied until dawn with the WHOLE family.
I take my life in chunks. And need to accommodate my own emotions as I move from 54 meatless, cheeseless days, to the celebration. I need the personal, "down time", to get ready psychologically. Orchestras don't usually end a performance of Mozart's Requiem with a full-bore performance of the Hallelujah Chorus. The juxtaposition is too jarring emotionally. So, why are we doing the same thing?
Blessings! (and an easy fast).
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Fr. Joe's post is excellent and worth reading numerous times: Originally posted by Fr. Joe: I haven't had time until tonight, to read much of this exchange, but feel compelled to enter into it now. I recall preparing several posts for the thread on this topic which I believe was active last season. Being a student of the liturgy for many years, I find this particular theme to be both extremely interesting and crucially important to the integrity and flow of the liturgy. While this discussion has been lively with important points made by all, there seem to be several points that are misconstrued, I think out of a sincere belief that they are correct.
The paschal liturgy is important because it is the liturgical heart of the year. Especially in the Ruthenian "South-West Rus'" recension, the post-Easter liturgy possesses a particular charism of its own, because of the intensity with which it is celebrated and known by the faithful. This reflects in both formal rubrical practices and informal intricacies or traditions that make the usage, in my opinion, beautifully unique and special. An example of the latter would be the fact that there is probably no service sung so beautifully by the people as a funeral during the Eastertide, both during Bright Week in particular and the paschal season as a whole. At least this was true of the chant in Church Slavonic and has in many places become true of the English paschal melodies as well. The paschal stichera were known by heart and sung throughout the season, as is proper at the "kissing of the Cross." It's just an example, but one I feel is noteworthy.
In most all recensions, the paschal troparion is prescribed to replace the pre and post-communion hymns, especially "We have seen the true light . . . " The Russian vulgate usage returns to singing "May our lips be filled . . . " and "Blessed be the name of the Lord . . . " but use the paschal troparion at the time of the "Glory to the Father . . . " before the dismissal. Greek practice would seem to be more similar to ours. In the Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Kyivan and Galician recensions, ALL the post-communion hymns are replaced by the troparion until Ascension when they are replaced by the prokeimenon of that feast. There is an important liturgical rhythm to maintain, that follows the liturgy through until Pentecost, when, as returning to usual, the hymns "We have seen the true light . . . " and "Heavenly King . . . " are again sung. Singing those and the other hymns instead of "Christ is risen . . . " in Ruthenian, South-West Rus' churches would be like singing "Alleluia" in Roman Catholic churches during Lent. It just is not and has never been done this way. It is not expressive of the uniqueness of the particular tradition. Sometimes, organic development has to be considered over "historical correctness" even from the insights of the best of liturgical scholars. Besides, the people do have an affinity for the "received" paschal liturgy, so why destroy this good quality?
The idea of "tuning down" the paschal liturgy after Bright Week is not relevant because the usage already has prescribed how the liturgy is to be taken throughout Paschaltide, and it is laid out in the Typikon (traditional, not any "revised" or "pastorally sensitive" interpretations of it). There is a lot of difference between Bright Week services and those during the other weeks of Pascha and many are obvious: (a) the doors are closed in most churches; (b) blessings are no longer given exclusively with the hand cross {the handcross use during Pascha is an important part of the Ruthenian Easter time} except on Sundays; (c) the weeks have their own themes instead of using the actual texts of Pascha; (d) the usual third antiphon is used; (e) the dismissal uses only "Christ our true God, 'risen from the dead . . .'" rather than the entire troparion, and other things. So, there should be no confusing of Bright Week and the rest of the season with the recension as it has been received.
There is the tendency, on the part of a certain type of Ruthenian priest, to "exaggerate" the Paschal season by extending "some" of the practice of Bright Week into the rest of the season, by letting all the iconostasis doors be open until Ascension, but this is not the norm but rather only practiced by a few priests of what some call the "high Greek Catholic" style.
Regarding the order of services on Holy Saturday, there is no one easy solution other than following the typikon and the tradition. Since most admit that Passion Week is considered "outside of time" the services do not always correspond to their intended physical time. But, there is such a thing as "liturgical time" as the drama of Passion Week unfolds. Therefore, and especially if one is able to celebrate "all" of the possible services, some may be celebrated at times other than they were originally written for, but have become traditional and practical at certain other times. Strasti or Matins with the 12 Gospels works on Thursday evening in most parishes and so on. The OCA in particular is committed to these "reverted time" services and does most all of Passion Week in anticipation, so why can't we. Are we constrained by physical time in our liturgical life? To be slavish to such, especially at such a crucial time as the Passion Week, disturbs the rhythm of the liturgy. This is especially important because the services and the movement and decoration of the church are meant to "recreate" the saving events of the Passion and Resurrection, as if they were occurring in our midst.
There is nothing wrong with celebrating the Liturgy of St. Basil with Vespers on Holy Saturday morning, regardless of its origin as the baptismal Easter Vigil. If it works for some parishes in the evening, the so be it, but in most of our parishes, that is not the case. It is true that the service in the morning is not usually that well attended, but there are those churches that get a decent crowd. In many places, people are coming to the church to visit the Plashchanitsa, so some choose to come for the liturgy or during it, so there are people at the church. Other preparations are being made, such as the hall and the decorations. It can be a busy time, so the Vesper liturgy does have a pivotal role. Original or not, the accepted or "received" evening service has become Resurrection Matins and the Divine Liturgy of John Chrysostom. Particularly to Ruthenian and Ukrainian churches, Catholic and Orthodox, is to celebrate the Matins by itself, followed by the blessing of paschal food. It is still maintained in many places in the US (and possibly Canada). In many places, the traditional vigil of Nocturns, Resurrection Matins and procession and Divine Liturgy is being introduced, hopefully towards midnight. It is important to note that in the "new immigrant" Ukrainian Catholic and Orthodox parishes today, the more proper celebration of the "vigil" meaning Nocturns or "Nadhrobne," Resurrection Matins and procession and Divine Liturgy is observed out of habit, reflecting the practice in many a city and village in Ukraine today (and I assume Subcarpathian Rus'). In these parishes, it is often taken in the very early morning, around 5 or 6 a.m., another perfectly sensible time to take this combination of services - the very first act of the new day.
To try to "recreate" an early Christian time frame and order of the Passion Week and Pascha services is counter-productive to a meaningful use of the services of the liturgical books. Having a sense of history also means being faithful to the legitimate heritage we have received in our own tradition today. In general, Passion Week services have always gone well in our parishes, at lest until now. If a consensus could be had, I believe that the majority would certainly side with the "received" celebration of Holy Week, together with all the particular other customs associated with this time.
One more item should be addressed. When the original "official" rendition of the Prostopinije was published in English, it was indeed to make a quick and smooth transition into the modern language. This is what is called the "Byzantine Liturgical Chant" or the "black book." It was not printed by the late +Msgr. William Levkulic, (may have had some input, I am not sure), but rather was the product of a collaboration of several priests, chiefly Fr. John Bobak, STD and the present Bishop Andrew Pataki, then a priest. It has received wide spread criticism over the years for not being faithful enough to the original notes, but there was an attempt to make the chant "easier" for American voices to sing. Thus, many more "Eastern" characters were eliminated, such as the "fancier" endings on the troparia and kontakia. Nevertheless, the book did find wide acceptance and "worked" well for what it was intended to do. It is still a major part of the melodies of the liturgy. Before the "BLC" and after it, until today, individual cantors and priests have published material, much of which is more faithful to the more literal musical notation of the prostopinije. It has been of varying quality, but has produced good results lately, through the efforts of those like our esteemed Administrator.
It should be noted that Msgr. Bill Levkulic of blessed memory provided countless parishes, clergy, cantors and people with quality liturgical booklets that were practical and easy to use. It is a ministry of love that began by the simple desire to have books for the people in his own parish and was so successful that almost every church in the Metropolia and in several other jurisdictions make use of them. By his own admission and disclaimer, they may not have always been "exactly" liturgically or musically correct, but it was what worked for him and for many others. Certainly, there are problems for some, but in general his works are excellent resources and liturgically sound. It will be hard to replace his contribution in this regards, which took many hours of work. Indeed, others are making important contributions, however.
To summarize, I believe that, for the most part, Passion Week and Pascha as it has been traditionally celebrated in our parishes has both been uniquely beautiful and practically doable and popular. Except the possibility of including services that may not have been taken in certain places, the "received" order mostly works fine. The same is true of the particular liturgical recension that governs both Bright Week and the remaining paschal season. To change that makes as much sense as changing the acclamation of the anaphora to just, "It is proper and just" eliminating the rest of the hymn. It may have historical precedent or be intellectually correct, but it just is not done anywhere, in any tradition or usage, Orthodox or Greek Catholic. Rather than real liturgical reform, it is anachronistic, putting things in an environment that they have grown away from. The same premise holds true for the "renewal" of the other services, especially the current Divine Liturgy. I say this not only as a liturgical "traditionalist" but also as one who admires and has studied, so much of the work of the current scholars on the liturgy that have influenced some of these reforms or rather, "innovations." Good liturgical sense dictates that the more familiar order of services and rubrics be maintained and made to flourish.
God bless you all.
Fr. Joe This is excellent and I thank Fr. Joe for taking the time to compose it. I hope that all of our priests read it and use Fr. Joe's liturgical wisdom as a model for their parish life. 
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Originally posted by Tony: Originally posted by Fr. Joe: [b] To change that makes as much sense as changing the acclamation of the anaphora to just, "It is proper and just" eliminating the rest of the hymn. It may have historical precedent or be intellectually correct, but it just is not done anywhere, in any tradition or usage, Orthodox or Greek Catholic. Fr. Joe Dear-to-Christ Fr. Joe,
"It is proper and just" without anything further is Greek Orthodox usage. Please see this link [goarch.org] for substantiation.
Tony [/b]Dear friends in Christ, Continuing in the above theme and to not disturb the topic of this thread I decided to creat a new thread to discuss this possibly further and to share some information I recently found. I wish all a blessed Fast. Tony
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