www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Female Dominance in Lay Ministries

I go to church every Sunday and do not see any evidence of women in the Eastern Orthodox Church performing the roles of an Eastern Orthodox deacon or server. A Deacon in the Eastern Orthodox church is ordained and has a liturgical function. Servers can only be mailes. Therefore, I repeat I do not see women involved in ministry or administration of a parish, serving on parish councils as a threat to the Eastern Orthodox Church. If women had these talents let them use their talents for the Glory of God. Our parish participates in the Sunday of Orthodoxy in Toronto. I believe there are 42 Eastern Orthodox parishes of various jurisdictions in the city. I have never heard any concerns about women, such as those you have raised.
May be your concerns are relevant to the Roman Catholic Church or are evidence of misogyny.

I think that it is a problem, but not in that the women are participating but that the men are not pulling their fair share of the load. Were the men participating in lay ministry in numbers equal to the women, how much better off would our Church be?

The lack of men is troubling, and the longer men stay away from church the louder cries for women's ordination to the priesthood get. I think Fr. Anthony's onto something in linking the lack of male presence to a lack of vocations. Why would a teenager or young man want to join what looks like a women's club.(I know it isn't and I"m not comparing mass to leisure time!)If he has a true calling it would probably get buried under hesitancy and not surface until he's mature enough to see beyond appearances.

I don't know, but I would suggest (in no particular order) the following points from my exposure to Catholic and Protestant churches. I haven't been to more than half a dozen Orthodox parishes, so I don't know if most of these apply as much there as well.


Why Men Don't Go to Church Anymore?

-- female pastors (the male ego doesn't like to be nagged at or preached to; see also the last point on this list)

-- wimpy, effeminate male pastors

-- hymns, preaching and church decoration that emphasize sentimentality and femininity

-- sermons that boil down to "be nice"

-- scandals which belie any call to a higher level of moral living

-- silence in the face of rational and scientific challenges to religion

-- political sermons

-- little or no ministry to practical needs of normal people (i.e., people who aren't homeless, crippled, or on the other side of the planet)

-- very little discussion of money except asking for it (i.e. plenty of begging and calls to "stewardship" but nothing about the Christian management of money in personal / family life)

-- no calls to discipline and sacrifice; no practical plans for growing into a disciplined lifestyle, i.e., how to start fasting... [Note: that might not be true at most Orthodox parishes.]

-- preaching that the Gospel is about "relationships" and charitable works (i.e., almost nothing about worship, self-discipline, sacrifice, and union with God)

-- Generally, a sense that church is a place for ladies and children and old people.

That's just my two cents worth.

-- John

My favorite mini-sermon is from that bastion of manly fortitude and leadership, Frank Burns (M*A*S*H):


To quote St. Francis deSales, "Some people are so nice as to be unkind." Authentic patroral leadership often requires addressing topics no one likes to address. Topics that are not "nice", but need to, in charity, be addressed.

Gordo