www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Vatican declares Bishop Basil Hopko a Martyr

Alex, I was just making a little play on words; but you are probably right, that is more your domain.

Petlura and Melnyk supported the Greek Catholic church and were blessed by the bishops. The bishops blessed the nazis. The pope blessed hitler. The nazis supported ukrainoznavstvo and helped developed the ukrainian nationality. That makes them as much ukrainian and uniate martyrs as this man romzha or a similar monster stepanic. I personally believe it is all crypto-fascism and detest apostasy from the True Church, Orthodoxy.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
R

This post is so distorted I do not know how to respond it it.

It lacks truth.

It lacks logic.

It lacks charity.

It is unworthy of someone who professes to be Orthodox. Real Orthodox do not need to play games with the truth to profess Orthodoxy.

It is time for a �time out� for Rostislav.

Thank you Admin.


Sharon

Rostislav, according to his sign off, is none other than the blow hard and all around pain in the neck "Orthodoxy or Death". He is such a pain that he couldn't get along with some Orthodox people on a forum I frequent. He really is a troubled person.

Dan Lauffer

Indeed, Dan, and belonging to some sort of self-defined "True Orthodox" sect rather than being in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church. I recognize his style too.

OrthodoxEast

Alex,

I am not a Slav( poor me ) but from my personal experience, there are Ukrainians who would regard Gojdic, Hopko, and Romzha as Ukrainians and not Ruthenians, believing that there is no distinct Ruthenian identity. I have read Ukrainian publications that refer to them as such.

I have also read articles in which Blessed Dominic Trchka is identified as a Czech in one article and as Ukrainian in another. The Servant of God Alexander Chira also has been identified as Ruthenian and Ukrainian.

In the following link: www.papalvisit.org.ua/eng/saints_18.php [papalvisit.org.ua] , you will see that Gojdic and Blessed Methodius Trcha and Alexander Chira are listed as heroes of the Ukrainian Church.

I can understand the desire of having these holy men as "one of our own", but it would be nice to know definitely which saint/blessed belonged to which ethnic group.

Can you set the record straight for me? Thanks.

Well, if the Pope considers them to be Ukies...you know, "Causa finita est." :-)

OrthodoxEast

Dear Administrator,

I pray that Rostislav or Orthodoxy or Death be forgiven the slanderous untruths he wrote here in the name of no one knows what.

May our Lord enlighten him and bring him not only into the Orthodoxy of Truth but also into the Orthodoxy of Love, Peace and Forgiveness.

Alex

Dear Griego,

I've gotten into so much trouble on this score before that I am afraid to say anything now!

When my Ruthenian Catholic brothers and sisters tell me that so and so was Ruthenian and is their Saint in the first instance, I accept that at face value.

I cannot speak for other Ukies (I wouldn't want to because you never know who you are going to offend).

But I will reserve the right to venerate all these Ruthenian Saints and Martyrs along with the Ukrainian and Russian Martyrs as the Saints of Rus'.

We all share one common Byzantine patrimony, Catholic and Orthodox.

I've venerated St Theodore Romzha and St Paul Gojdic all my life.

They are my heroes and intercessors along with Andrew Sheptytsky and the Ukrainian martyrs (Sheptytsky was half-Polish if we really want to get into the ethnic thing!)

Alex

Dear OrthodoxEast,

Fortunately, any pronouncements on people's ethnicity by the Pope have nothing of the "ex cathedra" about them!

And, by the way, ahem, the canonical Orthodox Church of Ukraine has declared St Alexius of Carpatho-Rus a "Ukrainian" saint as well . . .

Not quite the "causa finita" but just as insensitive to Ruthenians.

Have a nice day, as you are thinking how you are going to lob the ball I've just put into your court back at me . . .

Alex

Dear Dan,

Whether "Ros" is troubled or not, what he says is part of an ideology that is quite prevalent in Russian Orthodoxy today, breathing, as it still does, much old Great Russian chauvinist imperialism.

According to this ideology, Ukrainian identity is a later development and has no historical or cultural foundation as a separate national entity.

Ross's charge that the nazis developed that identity is a new one - usually the Russian Orthodox line is that it developed under the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the 19th century.

During the trial of Stepan Bandera in Poland, the Polish press came to openly criticize the prevalent view there that Ukrainian nationalism was "exported to Ukraine from North America."

Petlyura was Orthodox, but formally a freemason. He died before Hitler came on the scene. There are many other untruths in what Ross wrote, but, again, they reflect the standard Russian anti-Ukrainian independence propaganda, Orthodox, Tsarist or Communist.

And, of course, Ross's gloss over the ROC's historic collaboration with the soviet government, no better than the nazis, is significant and telling.

Ross and people like him in the Orthodox Church are one big reason why Russian Orthodoxy has always been feared in Ukrainian circles, including Ukrainian Orthodoxy circles that have tried to culturally and liturgically distance themselves from the ROC.

I am sorry such a post had to appear here and I hope the Administrator would consider having what amounts to "hate mail" erased from this record.

Alex

I've never figured why it should matter if a holy person I love is a brother, a second cousin, or no relation at all. Theoretically we are one in Christ - who was after all, a Jew, a member of my tribe...


But I've also never figured out this ethnic thing either, being a bit of a Heinz myself. Personally I feel like it gives me a toe in a lot of ethnicities, but to some folks I guess it means I'm not "nash". Which also gives me a giggle, since I grew up with the smattering of Yiddish my Mama still retained. When you're hungry you go get a nash. So if I'm not nash, that's OK, since I really don't want to be nibbled.


In the cosmic scheme of things, how much does nationality/ethnicity matter? Bishop Hopko was a good and holy man.


Cluelessly,


Sharon

Dear Sharon,

For forty years of Communist rule, persecution of the Greek Catholic Church, suppression of the Rusyn nationality, the Rusyn people (who, except for Roma, were the lowest rung on the economic ladder) were told that everything about their identity was either illegal (anti-Socialist / anti-social / anti-progressive) or useless ("nepotribnyj"). Now they have some heroes from those dark decades whom the universal Church, and their secular society as well, is recognizing. That's a big deal. But is the Church associating these heroes with the Rusyns? No, they are being associated with other peoples/nations.

I think if I were over there and what came out of this was somebody like the Pope, or my country's government leaders saying "Look what this person did; and he was a Rusyn", it would mean a lot to me. It would mean that, yeah, maybe what they've said about us all those years isn't really true, maybe we are worth something after all.

In the cosmic, eternal scheme of things, it doesn't matter. But in the here and now, for those formerly oppressed people (many of whom are still beaten down and made to feel ashamed of their origins), it matters a lot.

Dear Lemko,

Well said!

Holy Ruthenian Saints and Martyrs, pray unto God for us!

Alex