www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall NPM Convention

As I mentioned in another post, if you are interested in authentic, traditional Catholic music, look into the Church Music Association of America.

Church Music [musicasacra.com]

You are correct about the lions den. I have been battling them for 30 years and I'm not budging an inch. I think it's fine to engage NPM, just don't imitate it.

Now that would make sense, going to an Orthodox music conference/workshop.
Why Eastern Catholics would attend Roman Catholic Music conventions does not make any sense.

U-C

Ung-certez,

Where in the mission statement does it say "Roman Catholic"? Or are we supposed to roll over and admit that if it says Catholic but not "Eastern Catholic", we're not included? If an organization like the KoC is mostly Roman Catholics, does that put it off-limits to us?

ByzanTN,

Amen. Then again, I've also been in groups of Orthodox musicians where I was the ONLY one defending congregational singing at the Liturgy - which was immediately pegged as an "import from Roman Catholicism" Any chance of an Eastern Section in CMAA, so I can join without Ung-certez hinting that I'm a Roman Catholic just pretending to be nash?

Jeff

But is it not intended as an organization for Roman Catholics and staffed by Roman Catholics? Isn't a spade a spade?

U-C

Dear Ung-certez,

Professor Thompson, Roman and Father Peter Galadza, Sharon Mech and others have participated in NPM conferences AS EASTERN CATHOLICS, held or attended workshops on Eastern plainchant, etc. None of them had to pretend to be Roman Catholics. There are some things we DO have in common with other Catholics (viz. technical interests in musicianship, congregational singing, shared buildings with Roman Catholics in underserved areas,etc.); we bring a living tradition of congregational chant they lack; we have kept at least occasional celebrations of services their own documents instruct them to restore (according to their own rite, of course); the NPM has provided conference space for Eastern Catholic musicians which is NOT generally available in Orthodox churches, and so on. We also have musicians attending Orthodox conferences; does this mean they're being disloyal to their own communion?

Why are you so interested in painting this convention as "for Roman Catholics only"? I mean, if you were REALLY interested in what was celebrated for morning prayer (and believe me, a full Matins does NOT fit into the time slot NPM has for morning prayer), why not just send Professor Thompson a PM?

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

P.S. The NPM describes itself as an organization for Catholic musicians - not Roman Catholic musicians. Elsewhere they say " The National Association of Pastoral Musicians (NPM) is an organization for anyone who recognizes and supports the value of musical liturgy." I would hope this applies to us.

Jeff--

I don't discount a lot of what you say about commonalities, but as someone else said, because of our size and entirely different praxis, we become a oddity to be viewed, a side show amusement. Are any Roman pastoral musician going to go back an implement Carpatho-Rusyn prostopinjie in their parishes? Are we going to implement anything that is heard or learned from the NPM convention? I doubt it and I certainly hope not! It's a Roman Catholic organization no matter what the name says. And that's fine. If there was a real Eastern "section" of it staffed and attended by various Eastern Churches, that would be even better.

A Greek Catholic is not being disloyal or pretending to be RC by attending. At the same time, a Greek Catholic attending an Orthodox musicians convention is at least in the same liturgical family, regardless of how they are received. There is no disloyalty by attending either.

I do take issue, however, when something is billed as "Byzantine Morning Prayer" and is not really Matins. That is our morning prayer. If it doesn't fit in the time slot, then why compromise and chop the service to make it fit?

John

Thank you, John.

I am not attending the conference, but honestly, since such conferences often have "morning prayer" in one form or another, there would be nothing wrong as far as I am concerned in having a slot on the schedule called "Byzantine Morning Prayer" and celebrating daily matins - which could be done in 45 minutes without major abbreviations. (I was thinking of full Sunday Matins, as according to, say, the MCI books. On the other hand, my wife's OCA parish celebrates Sunday Matins before Liturgy in 35-40 minutes.)

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

It would be nice if more EC parishes instituted "Byzantine Morning Prayer" on a regular basis...

_____
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

I agree - and I would rather see a PORTION of Matins that makes sense liturgically than "pieces" of Matins sung, as is done in some parishes. And of course, some parishes take the Third Hour. But as John suggests, Matins is our principal liturgical morning prayer. (That's why we cantors starting preparing texts and music in the mid-1990's - because of the huge learning curve in implementing parochial Matins, especially with books that skimped on rubrics and commentary.)

Jeff

To be fair, in the RC church of my youth (the town's Polish church), we sang a lot of the same hymns I sing in the Carpatho-Rusyn church of my adulthood. Of course, many of my Polish ancestors who founded the RC church were called "Greeks"...

Oh, I thought you were going to say you remember hearing "Polish Supplikaci" at a Ruthenian Church.

Ungcsertezs

I beg everyone's pardon for this off-topic question. This assertion seems to be well-established conventional wisdom, but I would be interested in exactly how Matins is abbreviated in this fashion. We don't have any of the Divine Praises celebrated officially as a mission, but some of us pray Vespers, Matins, Compline, the Hours, etc. fairly regularly as a Reader's Service, either individually or together. In my experience, a weekday Reader's Matins easily goes 2 hours. Sunday Matins is closer to 3 hours.

It seems like you must reduce the hexapsalmos to the unipsalmos, eliminate the kathismata, reduce the number of canons and the number of odes taken, etc. At this point it gives the impression of just "having pieces of Matins sung". It would seem to me like racing to a finish line instead of the feeling of a leisurely stroll with God that a full Matins services engenders.

I'm not trying to be judgmental. I was just wondering if there are other ways that Matins is abbreviated that do less violence to the overall structure and that I am unfamiliar with. And again, my apologies for not actually addressing the NPM convention per se.