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#244772 07/13/07 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by John K
The gathering hymn on the MCI RDL sheet for this Sunday ...

The above is from a thread on the RDL Forum. "Gathering hymn"? Was ist das?

_____
Noli nothis permittere te terere.

KO63AP #244796 07/13/07 07:18 PM
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There is not even a "gathering hymn" in the Latin church anymore. The USCCB Committee on the Liturgy has writen:
Quote
A. THE INTRODUCTORY RITES

46. The rites preceding the Liturgy of the Word, namely the Entrance, Greeting, Act of Penitence, Kyrie, Gloria, and Collect, have the character of a beginning, introduction, and preparation.
Their purpose is to ensure that the faithful who come together as one establish communion and dispose themselves to listen properly to God's word and to celebrate the Eucharist worthily.
In certain celebrations that are combined with Mass according to the norms of the liturgical books, the Introductory Rites are omitted or performed in a particular way.

The Entrance

47. After the people have gathered, the Entrance chant begins as the priest enters with the deacon and ministers. The purpose of this chant is to open the celebration, foster the unity of those who have been gathered, introduce their thoughts to the mystery of the liturgical season or festivity, and accompany the procession of the priest and ministers.

So you can have an entrance hymn, entrance chant, entrance song, but not a gathering hymn. The "gathering" concept has been rejected by the bishops.

byzanTN #244803 07/13/07 07:29 PM
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I think (I could be entirely wrong though) that the idea of the gathering hymn is mainly Protestant. Many Protestants who arrive prior to the start of the service will spend time socializing with each other. The gathering hymn serves the purpose of signaling to the congregation that it is time for the visiting to end and the service to begin. In the Eastern Christian tradition, with the emphasis on the faithful praying in the Church prior to the start of Divine Liturgy, there is no need for a gathering hymn, especially so if the Hours are being prayed immediately prior to Divine Liturgy. BTW, I attend a parish where some parishioners would pray the Rosary prior to Divine Liturgy. That has basically died out. I recently spoke to the priest about praying the Hours prior to Divine Liturgy, and he told me that he plans to start doing this soon. That made me so happy to hear that!

Ryan

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There was a movement at one time, for the congregation to gather first - I think that included the priest as well - then sing a gathering song. The bishops rejected that idea. The entrance song or hymn is now more of a processional hymn.

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What is a "gathering hymn"?

It sounds like someone somewhere is stuck in the 1970s/1980s. What is this obsession with sprinkling the Church with these trendy monikers. Parachute pants anyone?

Rufinus #244815 07/13/07 07:50 PM
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Is there a 'scattering hymn' at the end of services? grin

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Quid agis, Medice?

KO63AP #244817 07/13/07 07:57 PM
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Some years ago, a number of parish cantors asked about paraliturgical hymns that matched up with the Byzantine liturgical cycle. Professor Thompson and others composed a number, mostly set to traditional devotional or Marian hymn melodies. They're intended to be sung before the Divine Liturgy, and generally reflect both the Gospel and Epistle of the day. (The final verse, based on the day's Epistle, is omitted if the Lucan Jump takes the two out of sync.) I think these hymns MIGHT make up 1% of the total materials prepared by the MCI to date, probably less.

*shrug* I have no idea why John K. chose the term "gathering hymn"; that's not a phrase used anywhere in the MCI publications, and I imagine he took the term from Latin practice. (The term is still used in Latin Rite churches around here.) You certainly can't call them "entrance hymns", cause that's another critter entirely. They are simply provided with the Sunday propers on the MCI website, for those parishes that want to use them. I've gotten six requests so far from parishes that want them collected in booklet form, but that's not as high a priority right now as the devotional hymns in the Levkulic service book that also need to be made available.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

P.S. Athanasius the L: in all the parishes I've served, it's typical to sing a Marian or feastday hymn between the time the priest or deacon begins incensing the church, and the opening blessing.

ByzKat #244820 07/13/07 08:06 PM
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ByzKat,
Wow! You are quick to respond to these problems.

We're gonna have to get you a fire hat with "MCI" embroidered at the top. Thanks for clearing this up.

R.

KO63AP #244833 07/13/07 08:41 PM
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Is there a 'scattering hymn' at the end of services?

KO63AP:

The "scattering hymn" is "Blowing in the Wind" and it's usuallly only used when someone scatters cremated remains off a hilltop. biggrin biggrin
Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

BOB

Last edited by theophan; 07/13/07 08:43 PM.
KO63AP #244860 07/14/07 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by KO63AP
Is there a 'scattering hymn' at the end of services? grin

_____

The "Scattering Hymn" is what we cantors try to sing over the loud chattering of the parishioners as they leave the church after the final blessing.... laugh grin

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Originally Posted by Steve Petach
Originally Posted by KO63AP
Is there a 'scattering hymn' at the end of services? grin

_____

The "Scattering Hymn" is what we cantors try to sing over the loud chattering of the parishioners as they leave the church after the final blessing.... laugh grin

biggrin Oh how true no matter what the tradition! biggrin

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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There should be no need for a "gathering hymn" or "scattering" hymn. Ideally (maybe that's not the word), normally there should be the celebration of the Hours (Matins or Third/Sixth Hours) before the Liturgy, -- the tail end of which could coincide with the beginning of the Liturgy. As for a recessional hymn, why not have the distribution of antidoron with the singing of Psalm 33 (I will bless the Lord at all times). The prayer after communion of St. Basil or St. John Chysostom could also be recited while people file out or stay to offer a proper thanksgiving.

We often look like protestants or Roman Catholics because we do not follow our own traditions.

How many have exit processions and the priest greeting the people on the way out of Church. That's not our tradition. People can come forward at the end of Liturgy, receive the antidoron (blessed bread, not Communion), and kiss the cross and or hand of the priest before leaving Church. More traditional.

Funny that the RDL doesn't even mention the giving of antidoron. At the least the previous Liturgikon had the ceremony in the text, though most did not make us of it. Now it's altogether missing. Restoration?


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All the Byzantine Churches I've seen use one of Prof. Thompson's gathering hymns have done so while the priest or deacon incenses the church and people.

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Nothing to forbid this, but it's not the most traditional thing. Do Orthodox have these "gathering" hymns? Sounds more like a borrowing from Latin practice.

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Since normal Latin practice is unaware of a "gathering hymn", it seems that Latin practice is an unlikely source from which to borrow the idea.

As to the scattering hymn, here's an example:

The Sunday after Metropolitan Joseph (Raya) was consecrated, he offered Hierarchal Divine Liturgy at Saint Anne's in Paterson, where he had been curate years before. The place was packed, and naturally there was a big dinner, held in some hotel in the vicinity.

Everything was festive and good, until the very end of the big dinner. The newly-consecrated Archbishop offered the concluding prayer, the assembly sang "Eis polla eti, Despota!" with great gusto, and people got up to leave. As they were putting on coats and saying good-bye to each other, an overstuffed Slovak Monsignor grabbed the microphone and began booming out "God Bless America".

Nobody paid the least attention; conversations continued and people kept heading out the doors, leaving the soloist to boom away to the four walls. I've seldom seen a more effective way of clearing a room in a hurry!

Fr. Serge

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