www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Rusyns Greek-Catholics oppressed by Slovak Catholic Church -

May I suggest that you meet Bishop Milan of Kosice?

Fr. Serge

Rusyn 31- Thank you for including the Communist debate in this thread. There are some who may think that it is off course, but in fact it is integral to understanding peoples perceptions and the overall balance of power between church and state, particularly immediately after WW2. Other than the quote you provided, I myself have never before read that Communists were attempting to create a Carptho-Ukrainian homeland. This 'nation building' would be incongruent with the overall behaviour of Communists which has been to denegrate any form of Ukrainian national statehood. In any event, ALL of Eastern Europe had strong Communist minorities who were doing everything possible to destroy the national churches (Orthodox & Greek Catholic). This would sadly also include people who identified themselves as Carpatho-Rusyns, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Czechs, and many other labels. All had minority movements who wanted to take power in the name of the Communist Party. The Rusyn nationalists (Ukrainians) were attempting create a true nation state so that just this would not happen, and in fact they were hoping to launch an offensive into Greater Ukraine 'Vylyka Ukraijina' to free the Ukrainians of Bolshivik Russophilic terror which in 1932 - 1933 alone had claimed over 7 million men, women, and children in an act of genocity. In summary, the Rusyn Nationalists (Ukrainians) were attempting to free the people of Communism, whereas the Communists in Carpatho-Rus were attempting impose that form of terror on the people of 'Subcarpthian-Rus'. The Rusyn nationalists (Ukrainians) and Rusyn Communists were sworn enemies who fought each other early into the 1950. It's too bad that Magosci and Pop fail to mention some of the heroic battle that the Carpatho-Ukrainians as part of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA in Ukrainian) fought against both the NAZIs and Muscovite Communists. They were attempting to preserve their way of life - and perhaps most importantly their cherished Greek-Catholic Church.

Miller - I spoke to the vice-president of the Ukrainian World Congress this morning (@Montreal) and the head of the Ukrainian Canadian Committees' Toronto Branch and both have indicated that Canadian-Ukrainian Studies are NOT part of 'Ridna Shkola' curriculums as far as they new. They also both told me that even in 'Kursy Ukrajinoznavstva' (Ukrainiann High School - Saturdays) Canadian-Ukrainian Studies are not part of the curriculum. Further, they told me that both these levels of education still largely take place on Saturday mornings only. Perhaps things are different were you are. Also, I ask that you read the article which clearly states that Galicians, Ruthenians (Rusyns), Bukovinians, and others settle and established about an equal number of churches in each area. Therefore, there was representation from all these groups. What you are probably not aware of is that many of the Bukovinians and Ruthenians (and even some Galicians) whent over to the Russian Orthodox Church because that is the church to which they belonged when they were living in the old country (ie; what is now the Ukrainian Republic). If you look at the names of parishoner and priests in the Russian Orthodox Churches in Western Canada, even today you will notice that the vast majority of surnames are Ukrainian. The Galicians marginaly more dominant in Western Canada but more importantly as Professor Magosci has stated were the Pidemont of Ukrainian nationalism and tended to dominate political life. Your perception - because you belong to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church - is that Galicans dominated in numbers. This was more true in term of nationalism than anything else.

AsianPilgrim - At this point nobody even cares why people whent underground or not. The problem now is those above ground in Slovakia who are beign harassed the Slovak national Bishop Babjak who will not permit them to self-actualize in their native Ruthenian language. Why does the decades old policy of assimmilation of the Ruthenian people continue by Bishop Babjak and Rome remains silent ????

SergeKeleher - I have heard great things about Bishop Milan and if you could forward me an invitation I would be happy to meet him. I now live in Manhattan - he is welcome to visit anytime !!

I.F.

ps: sorry for typos - no time for spell check

I don�t know why you are pursuing this but I find it quite rude. It looks like I have to tell you that the Ukrainian World Congress is not a prime mover in Canada. I am not doubting your honesty in reporting their answers. However, these 2 people may be more interested in Ukrainian issues in Ukraine rather than in Ukrainian education in Canada. I do know that Ukrainian World Congress is a significant organization in the USA & in Europe but not here in Canada. Many of us here question its usefulness now that Ukraine is free. But it is a free choice for those who want to participate in that body. For example, I do not consider myself a Ukrainian living in the diaspora but a Ukrainian �Canadian. To me the use of the word diaspora implies we are all going to pack up and go �home� to Ukraine some day. My children are third generation. When I have been to Winnipeg for Church functions I have met people who are 5 generation and still involved in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and speaking Ukrainian.

Now if you had said you talked to the head of KYK (Canadian Congress of Ukrainians) or the Toronto head of KYK I would take notice or the head of the P�s &B�s Association (Professional & Businessmen�s Association). I was born in Toronto, educated in Toronto, married in Toronto, have 2 kids in Toronto and am a member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada with all my family including my wife�s parents and grandparents who in particular are very involved in the church and its organizations. Our Church has a national youth group named CYMK, which identifies itself as Ukrainian Orthodox Youth. The origins of CYMK are in the CYC movement in Canada. CYMK in particular is taught about our Ukrainian-Canadian settlement and history in Canada. My sons went to National Conventions of CYMK were plays were put on about Ukrainian pioneer settlement etc. that were written by the youth themselves not adults.

Our church headquarters are in Winnipeg and all out sobors take place every five years in Winnipeg. The point I was trying to make is that our church is an independent Canadian church and thus the teaching of Ukrainian-Canadian history is very important for our youth. Thus, for Ukrainian Orthodox parishes, Ukrainian-Canadian history is included. There are various types of Ukrainian Schools in Toronto, run by individual parishes or by organizations such as UNO, ODUM, PLAST, SUM and the quality differs across the board. I did contact someone who teaches in the PLAST school and she stated her organization does included a brief survey course of Ukrainian-Canadian history.

In the three prairie provinces in Western Canada, there are bi-lingual Ukrainian-English primary schools, thus the children learn language and culture and of course Ukrainian-Canadian history in the publicly funded regular schools. In addition there are private organizations with Ukrainian schools & I know that Organizations like PLAST in Winnipeg & in Edmonton, SUM and UNO in Winnipeg continue their work and for the Orthodox again there is CYMK in addition to school.

As I said before I do not think this has aby baring on the topic at hand so please let us discontinue discussing Ukrainian schools in Toronto.

Agreed! This is definitely off-topic. Either this threads posts are to remain on topic or it faces closure.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator

Back to the situation in Slovakia: From the programming on Radio Patria it seems that the Rusyns are being treated fairly well as far as language programming, and in one month on Sundays they have broadcasted two times GC divine Liturgies and once Orthodox.

Well, that is sort of correct, but remember this...

The Rusyn broadcast at Radio Patria is going to put the best of the Rusyn heritage on the radio. Through my rusyn radio program here in Pittsburgh we do the same thing and try not to get into politics. That is why I am on this board...

I have worked with Radio Patria's Ondrej Kandrac and Teodozia Lattova. Their job is to produce quality Rusyn programming to put the best Rusyn program on the air, not to criticize the Greek Catholic Church. That is the job of organizations like Rusinska Obroda in Presov or the news publications Narodny Novynky and Rusyn, also from Presov.

If you go to www.rusynacademy.sk [rusynacademy.sk] and look up religion, you will see the Charter of the Greek Catholic Rusyn that was sent to Bishop Babjak. You can get this either in its original Rusyn form, Slovak, or English.

Here's the English translation link: http://www.rusynacademy.sk/english/en_religions.html#C_H_A%A0R_T_E_R

If you go to these sites, you can see the response by the GC Church, as well another article on " The Rusyn Question" (they are in Slovak, no English translation available, sorry):

http://www.grkatpo.sk/spravy/?zobrazit=text&id=797
http://www.grkatpo.sk/spravy/?zobrazit=text&id=529

It is well documented that the Greek Catholic Church has tried to slovakisize the Rusyns. Take the fact that Rusyn priests would be transferred to Slovak parishes and vice versa.

Case-in-point a year ago this July 16th, Fr. Frantisek Krajnak was transferred from Medzilaborce to Kamienka. Yes, Kamienka is also Rusyn, but all of his work was done either in Medzilaborce or in his first assignment in Rokytov pri Humennom (another Rusyn village about 20 miles north of Humenne).

Fr. Frantisek translated the Gospel into Rusyn, and has been the leader of the Greek Catholic Rusyn priests. He has been very vocal for the Rusyn cause.

When he was transferred, the faithful wrote a scathing letter to Bishop Babjak. Here is the link to that story:

http://www.rusynacademy.sk/english/en_religions.html#The_last_Sunday_liturgy

We could also go into what is happening to the Rev. Jozifat Timkovic OSBM, and his brother the Rev. Gorazd Timkovic OSBM. Here is their website, check it out for yourself, lots of information and proof on the de-rusynifacation and slovakization.

http://www.geocities.com/timkovic/

The rusyns do get a lot on Radio Patria, but also remember that that is Slovak Radio 5. Bratislava dictates what goes on....

They mix up the liturgies between GC and Orthodox, to give fair balanced time to both.

If you go on the Orthodox website in Slovakia you can listen to the Rusyn homilies and look at the texts in Rusyn (but in latinized script).

http://www.pravoverni.sk/

Father, blahoslovi!
I know our polish-ukrainian bishop. It may be enough. So, what's so unusual about this bishpop Milan of Koszice?
It's too far from me - some 600 km at least.

Vostonchnyk - I distinctly remember Askold L. (President of the Ukrainian World Congress) tell me about this: "the UWC President was hosted at the home of the President of the European Congress of Ukrainians Levko Dovhovych in Kosice". You can read the whole article below. Askold L. of course live here in Manhattan and is very worldly, intelligent, sofisticated, wealthy multimilionaire, and a first class 'Bandera' player who attended SUM / CYM summer camps in New York State along with other notables like Mrs Yuschenko, R. Z. the Ukrainian minister of Justice, and of course the Patriarch of the UGCC Lubomyr Husar. He is clearly projecting the new image of Ukraine, which is one not associated with the past horros of Moskal Bolshivik Communism. Askold's visit to Slovakia was front page news and he was extremely well received by levels of government in Slovakia- even by the minority of Ruthenians who do not view themselves as Ukrainians (ie: they kinda of like him).

I.F.

PS: You may have noticed that he made a point of mentioning that the Bishop of the Greek Catholic Church was an enthnic Slovak (ie: he should be Ruthenian / Ukrainian).


СВІТОВИЙ КОНҐРЕС УКРАЇНЦІВ UKRAINIAN WORLD CONGRESS
CONGR�S MONDIAL UKRAINIEN CONGRESO MUNDIAL UCRANIO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SLOVAK REPUBLIC


From August 11-13, 2005, Ukrainian World Congress President Askold S. Lozynskyj was a guest of the Association of Rusyn-Ukrainians in the Slovak Republic (ARUSR). The Slovak Republic(SR) is particularly interesting from the Ukrainian perspective in that Ukrainians-Rusyns reside on their ethnic native land but outside the borders of Ukraine and thus are considered a part of the Diaspora. The total population of the SR is a little more than five million with approximately one hundred thousand Ukrainians-Rusyns. Unfortunately, the last census resulted in a smaller calculation and divided Ukrainian-Rusyns into two groups. A significant problem for Ukrainians in Slovakia is �political Rusynism� which insists that Ukrainians and Rusyns are two different nationalities. The Slovak authorities exploit the ancient maxim �divide and conquer� and popularize the two nationalities theory, thereby diminishing the size and influence of both groups.

The predominant share of Ukrainians resides in the Presov region (one of seven regions in the SR), in such cities at Presov, Svidnik etc. The headquarters of the ARUSR is situated in Presov. Svidnik is the site of an extraordinary Museum of Ukrainian-Rusyn culture, an art gallery and a �museum beneath the open sky,� where traditional church, school and dwelling architecture from different villages within the Presov region are on display. Svidnik hosts an annual Ukrainian Cultural Festival attracting an audience from all of the SR. The governor of the Presov region and the mayor of Svidnik are both ethnically Ukrainian. Ukrainians have radio programs, newspapers, magazines, schools, Ukrainian language classes, a state professional theatre, choirs and various folklore ensembles. However, the names of streets in areas largely inhabited by Ukrainians are strictly in Slovak in contrast to areas largely concentrated by Hungarians where Hungarian is a second language. The presiding bishop of the Greek Catholic eparchy is Slovak. Financial difficulties arise since funding is earmarked for specific projects only and not administrative expenses. The economic situation in the SR and the lack of financial resources of its citizens does not enable adequate private funding. Further, the community feels an intentional attempt to assimilate Ukrainians within both the Slovak and Roman Catholic amalgams.

In the course of his visit, the UWC President met with the SR�s former President Rudolph Schuster, the Governor of the Presov region, the Mayors of both Presov and Svidnik. Additionally in Presov he visited with Ukraine�s Consul General Inna Ohnivec. Relations between Ukraine and the SR are normal, yet limited. Even after the Slovak Republic�s admission into the European Union, trade with Ukraine increased with the balance favoring Ukraine. During the second day of his visit, the UWC President was hosted at the home of the President of the European Congress of Ukrainians Levko Dovhovych in Kosice. Additionally there was a meeting with the Presidium of the ARUSR, during which both sides provided information about themselves and discussed mutual concerns and the parameters for future cooperation. The press conference held in Presov was widely attended by Slovak and Ukrainian media. Of particular interest was the Slovak Rusyn-Ukrainian community�s imminent induction into UWC membership. Press coverage extended throughout the SR

The UWC President was escorted throughout his visit by the Chair of the ARUSR Ivan Laba, his two deputies � Petro Sokol and Pavlo Bohdan together with Ukraine�s Consul General and the ECU President.

On August 17 2005 the UWC Board of Directors meeting in Kharkiv voted to accept the ARUSR for membership in the UWC.


Askold S. Lozynskyj

President

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/press_releases/2005/Images/part2/Slovakia.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/press_releases/2005/Slovakia/index.html&h=1544&w=2080&sz=624&hl=en&start=42&sig2=kw3nNqbwwcNBU0miqjOeQg&tbnid=-uqbTg6m7vCC8M:&tbnh=111&tbnw=150&ei=GL2cRsKLC6GGeOPf9JMK&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dslovak%2Bgreek%2Bcatholic%2Bchurch%2Beparchy%26start%3D21%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D21%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dstrict%26client%3Ddell-usuk-rel%26channel%3Dus%26sa%3DN%26ad%3Dw5

To Jean Francois,Sir, your use of the word "Moskal" is offensive to me,especially when you link that word to Bolshevism.I thought this was a Byzantine Catholic Forum,NOT a Ukrainian Nationalist Forum.I may have stated this before,but does anybody realise that there were Russian Orthodox(whether Muscovite or Russified Ukrainians) who shed their blood for Catholic Spain,fighting for the Nationalists under Franco,whose victory prevented Spain from becoming a possible Soviet satellite in Western Europe.Then there were Orthodox who shed theie blood for Catholic Poland, both in the regular Polish Army and later in the Polish Army in Exile,which had not only Orthodox and Catholic Chaplins,but also Protestant,Jewish and Muslim Chaplins.This in spite of the excesses which were committed against the Orthodox by Poland between the wars,compared to Hitler and Stalin,most Ukrainians and Russians would probably have seen Poland as the lesser of three evils.To use words like "Moskal" is just as offensive as the cleric who claimed elsewhere that the Ukrainian Catholic Church was "pro-Nazi".Metropolitan Andrei Sheptitsky not only sheilded Jews from the Nazis,but also spoke out against POLISH treatment of the Orthodox during the interwar years.

Father, please, do not take an offence. It's a part of our Eastern European tradition to call each other names, e.g. moscovites call us, ukrainians, "khokhly", we call them "kacapy" or "moskali". Moreover, we belive, that "ruski" does not mean "russian", but "ukrainian". Since Moscow is the 3rd Rome and there will be no 4th - using an analogy with Rome-Romans, we consider the word "Moskal" to be equally legitimate. Language is political thing, indeed.

Father Al - Please do not take offense when none is meant. Please note that when the Ruthenian Metropolitan signed the Union of Brest of 1596, he was doing so on behalf of most of his bishops and all of RUS - but not Muscovy which is to the North of present day Ukraine.

Here is some historical information to help you better understand the nomenclaure. I mention it because it is relevant to the problem of Carptho-Rusyns who were the last to undergo the name change from Rusyn to Ukrainian:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://russia.nypl.org/images/maps/Muscovy2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://russia.nypl.org/maps/expanding.html&h=521&w=500&sz=61&hl=en&start=18&sig2=o8qqe0qvlsQ3_Fot5XIUIA&tbnid=DW0FU_Cxxvk9dM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=126&ei=VqKfRqztOJOCeIjasBs&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmuscovy%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dstrict%26client%3Ddell-usuk-rel%26channel%3Dus%26ad%3Dw5

At the time, the people from this Northern area were known as Muscovites and the people around Kyiv as Rusyns. In other words, the Ukrainians use to call themselves Rusyns AND STILL DO (by the way not just in Transcarpathia). They still call the people next door Moskali (or Muscovites) and the term is completely valid and not deragatory as you may have implied. You may have noticed, that since Ukraine became independant 15 years ago, historians have increasingly reverted to the term Mucovy / Moscali. Further The Ukrainian Orthodox Patriarch Filaret uses the term all of the time without offense to denote the fact that the people of present day Ukraine are Rusyns and of a different heritage than those of Muscovy (Moskali) who now are located in an area North of Ukraine. The Pagans of Ukraine odly follow the same logic (Rusyns & Moskali). Sorry Father - but get use to it because it's being used more and more by non-Rusyn / Ukrainians.

Please keep this thread on track. If you wish to discuss any subject matter which is off topic then please private pm me at any time.

Vostochnyk - Harvard University's Ukrainian Research Center can be contacted at any time to confirm what I have stated above to Fr. A. Most of the ORIGINAL maps of Muscovy and Ukrajina I mentioned above can be found at Harvard University. Please keep the thread on track or pm for off-thread discussions.

I.F.

I.F.

I am most interested in this thread, but it seems that we are spending so much time on the Rusyn-Ukrainian identity issues. What I want to know is: Is there anything we can do to help our Rusyn co-religionists defend their heritage and liturgy in Slovakia? Maybe there is not, but I would like to talk about it with people.

I am interested in the Ukrainian -Rusyn issue, too, but it seems like it should be a completely different thread.

I strongly suspect that the most effective means of supporting the Greek-Catholics in Slovakia is to visit them regularly and frequently, and stay in contact. Nothing is worse than the feeling that no one cares.

Fr. Serge