www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Rusyns Greek-Catholics oppressed by Slovak Catholic Church -

Father Keleher is correct. I recently finished researching my family's history and can trace it back to the late 1700.s I found cousins my my paternal grandfather's village and the oldest of them (Jozef Molnar) was actually born in my home town in Western Pennsylvania! His father (my paternal grandfather's older brother, Andrew) returned home to Kalsa in 1922 during a 16 month miner's strike. Jozef was born in 1921 and doesn't remember anything about my/his hometown, but when I contacted his son (Ondrej Molnar) they were absolutely astounded! And more importantly, they were deeply grateful.

One of my co-workers happens to have been born in Nitra, Slovakia and came to America in 2001. He helps me with the e-mails and phone calls. He said that most people in the smaller villages especially figure that their American relatives don't want to have anything to do with them! They figure the Americans will think their European cousins will want to borrow money, since everyone in America is filthy, stinking rich! I know it's not true, but stereotypes in the rural areas are hard to break.

Father is right--keep in contact with them. Find someone to translate and send letters, e-mails, money if you can and don't stop. They will be so grateful. When my cousin Ondrej and his father Jozef found out I was proud of being Rusyn they nearly fell over! Being Rusyn as considered the second lowest social position you could be--the only thing lower was being Roma (a gypsy). And when they found out I was Greek-Catholic and intererested in the church my grandfather went to, they almost blew a gasket. My cousin Ondrej said after our first phone call he couldn't sleep all night. He said he felt like a little kid at Christmas. And they were especially impressed by my wanted to help their church.

Keep in tough with the churches there. You can find a list of them quite easily. I'm sure they would be happy to know they are not forgotten. If you can't find a list of the churches, let me know, I can send you some links.

Tim

In case you do run into people who regard America as a vast inexhaustible cornucopia, here's a tip from a friend who always keeps up contact with the Old Country:

if they ask for luxuries, send or not, as you please - but if they ask for medicine, never refuse. Just establish early on that you can neither purchase nor send medicine without the appropriate documentation from a licensied physician in the destination country.

As to the feeling of shame at the Rusyn identity - that's understandable: belong to a stateless ethnos is not easy and the temptation to assimilate to the majority is strong.

Fr. Serge

Bless your heart tim 199 !!!

"As to the feeling of shame at the Rusyn identity - that's understandable: belong to a stateless ethnos is not easy and the temptation to assimilate to the majority is strong."

I've heard that some of the immigrants who knew they were Rusyn delierately told the people at Ellis Island they were Hungarians or Ukrainians, since they felt they were starting a new life in America, they might as well start a new life! My grandfather was asked if he wanted to change his name when he came through Ellis Island in 1905. Molnar means "Miller" in Hungarian. He said no, that's ok. It was good enough for his father and his father before that, he'll keep it. But he almost did change it "Mlynar" which is Miller in Rusyn. My father said my grandfather said he wasn't ashamed of his being Rusyn. He just said "I'm here for a new life and I'm just as good as anyone else."

I wish I had known my stara otec! He and I would have gotten along well, I think.

Tim

[quote=tjm199I've heard that some of the immigrants who knew they were Rusyn delierately told the people at Ellis Island they were Hungarians or Ukrainians, [/quote]

And many, many of them identified themselves as "Austrians" which was probably more or less correct since they were represented at that time by the Austrian Embassy in the US.

Excuse me, you are absolutely correct. It was the Austro-Hungarian Empire at the time, even if there was a large split between the Hungarian side of the family and the Austrian side. So many ethnicites to choose from. All technically correct since Rusyns were spread out all over that part of Europe.

Thank you for the correction

Tim

but for us , who are the children of this beutifull land is not problem to differ hungarian and ruthenian /ukrainian/

when I see Ellis Island lists it is not difficult for me to see them by surname and birthplace

Serge - Being lonely is never good. Do you have any suggestions on how we can better communicate with the Rusyns/Ukrainians of Eastern Slovakia.

Here are some pictures of President Yuschenko of Ukraine visiting the Lemkos during their annual 'Vatra' (Bonfire) event held in the Carpathian mountains of Eastern Poland. He visited both the Polish Orthodox and Ukrainian Greek Catholic Churches while visiting Lemkivshchyna (Lemko Land). Note his little son just loves to be doing whatever papa is doing - the little guy steals every picture.

http://www.president.gov.ua/gallery/album/?paid=785

Would a presidential visit to the Rusyn / Ukrainians of Eastern Slovakia be at all a morale booster ?

I would like to add one sentence about presence of president Yushchenko on Lemko*s Vatra ,
on website of wroclaw-gdansk greek-catholic eparchy /Poland/ were written that Yushchenko was talking to people gathered in Zdynya in lemko dialect
, so people were very astonished and very pleased

here are some pictures from this site :
http://www.cerkiew.net.pl/Wiadomosc...enie=wiad_1185265626&cerkiew=cerkiew
http://www.cerkiew.net.pl/Wiadomosc...enie=wiad_1185202086&cerkiew=cerkiew

I am no expert on the reception process at Ellis Island, but I can't help but wonder if the folks running the show would have always known what to do with a "Rusyn"

"Where are you from?"

"Austria-Hungary"

"So are you Austrian or Hungarian?"

"Rusyn"

"Rusyn? Doesn't sound German..... must be a type of Hunky! Hungarian you are then!"

"Can I be an American now, I just had an AWFULLY long boat ride and would like to take a shower"

"Sure thing Hungarian!"

"Whatever."

There are a lot of misconceptions flowing around here.

There were folks at Ellis Island who spoke the languages of the immigrants (research has changed the old conventional wisdom that surnames were changed there willy nilly).

The choice for nationality by the immigrants included "Russniak," which tended to be both Ukrainians and Rusyns from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Look at censuses from 1910 and 1920 and you'll find various identities, but I don't see much in the way of Ukrainian.

The Ukrainian identity was just not as widespread at the height of the immigrant flood pre-World War I as it would become. And the concept of Rusyn-ness was very different, broader and not the local identity it was to become, although there was a sense of a place called "Uhro-Rus,'" or Hungarian Rus'.

Many Carpatho-Rusyn immigrants, coming from the Hungarian-ruled part of Austria-Hungary, used the Hungarian (official) spellings of their names, first names and surnames. They were simply following what they'd been taught.

But, frankly, national consciousness didn't exist in many immigrants in the modern sense. They thought of themselves as Greek Catholics (many would become Orthodox when they got here, but came from a place where Orthodoxy was supressed).... And they thought of themselves as residents of their villages. They were more likely to express a vague Russian identity, although, again, not in the modern sense.

Boyko - Yes that was an amazing moment for the people there. Mrs Yuschenko who as a young woman use to attend Lemko 'Vatra' events here in the USA was also present and I'm sure she was moved also.

Tim - This quote from a longer article may explain where the Ruthenian Metropolia whent wrong and why today it's so difficult to re-connect to your ancestors in Eastern Slovakia and Ukraine:

"I have noted two trends in the early sixties on this continent. On the one hand there are the strong and most recent immigrant groups intent upon preserving the culture, language, customs, and calendar of the homeland and church. On the other, we have groups of priests aware of pastoral responsibilities to the younger generations, and laity expressing the conviction that their future lies in an adaptation of the ritual community to the new Canadian milieu, with the transformation of our Ukrainian Catholic Church into a Byzantine Canadian Church. There were precedents to this way of thinking. The Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches in the fifties and sixties tried to work with several proposed unions of eastern orthodox of varying backgrounds in an Orthodox Church of America. But it is imperative to note the subtle ploy of Constantinople and Moscow in this game, each intent upon establishing its own spheres of influence over these covert unions. And again to the south, our Ruthenian cousins in the United States embarked on this experiment of cultural assimilation in the fifties and sixties; and it seemed to many, because of their initial show of strength and resilience as a faith community, that theirs was the answer. The American Ruthenians, all originating from the Rusyn Church of the Carpathians, included byzantine Greek Catholics of Hungarian, Ukrainian and Ruthenian backgrounds. Supported by political groupings from the homeland, the different ethnic factions of the emigres, especially the Hungarians from the Carpathians jockeyed to establish their individual control over the other groups. The bishops and clergy were convinced that the only solution was to become Church, leaving behind all cultural,patriotic and national overtones and loyalties to their European brothers. It seemed that they were right; for statistically the American Ruthenian Church prided itself on the steady adherence and loyalty of the faithful to their Church. They had combined Catholic faith, their Ruthenian ecclesiastical traditions and the American melting pot. They did not experience initially a need for their Ruthenian (Ukrainian) culture. Some of our Ukrainian Canadian parishes sought to imitate this model, until they began to experience within their own ranks what the Ruthenians discovered in the 1970's in the U.S.A.: the mass exodus of their younger faithful to the American Catholic Church of the Roman rite, or the other Christian churches; and in this last decade, following the wider pattern, a loss of their Christian faith. Up to 1970 the chancery offices would receive hundreds of requests for changes of rite from Ruthenian to Roman; and then of a sudden these numbers leaped to thousands annually. The membership of the Byzantine Catholic Churches began to diminish. They were not renewed by fresh emigrations from the Carpathian eparchies. It was then that the bishops and clergy of the U.S.A. learned that people do not live in an ecclesiastical vacuum. Some of the more active and younger priests began to tap into disaffected Roman Catholics, welcoming them into their parishes, and extending a warm welcome to any and all who found spiritual solace in this new Byzantine American spirituality. But this was not universally accepted by the majority of pastors and many of the faithful nor by the bishops. Nor was it welcomed by the Roman clergy and bishops. Consciously or unconsciously, through these years the faithful had retained some form of identification with their homelands, and it was only those that experienced this, and wanted to discover something of their roots, that remained loyal to the American Ruthenian Church."

Full article can be found here:

http://www.heartofjesus.ca/UkrainianChurch/ukrChurchCanada.htm

How can the Ruthenian USA Metropolia assist the Ruthenians of Slovakia in reclaiming their Rusyn Eparchy ? How can they assit their ancestors in understanding that their ethnicity is not Slovak but Ruthenian ?

PS: Presidnent Yuschenko has two beautiful daughters and the little boy is too cute for words (he loves toy cars).

I.F.

What a surprise! I never thought I would see the day when "Bishop" ROMAN DANYLAK was quoted on an Eastern Catholic site.
Actually, someone pointed him out to me a short while ago while he was walking on Bloor St. West between Runneymede & Jane St. in Toronto. He is unfortunately ill and came home to Toronto.

To people in Southern Ontario, he is still connected with the conflict regarding Bishop Isadore Borecky's forced retirement.

Jean Francois, I have no trouble connecting with the Rusyns of East Slovakia.

I go there regularly, my next trip is in October, and I'll be staying in the village where my father spent his boyhood and my cousins still live..

As for the Byzantine Catholic Church in America, the hierarchy decided some 60 years ago to evolve away from its Carpatho-Rusyn roots into an American Byzantine church.

It no longer has a role to play in the ancestral homeland.

Thanks for the information. I am always seeking information about a number of things, especially this topic. But does anyone actually know the reason the Biships decided to abandon their ethnic roots to become American?

I can understand somewhat--my grandfather came to America in 1905 with two older brothers. My father (the third of 12 kids) was born in 1913. My grandparents could speak broken English only but strongly identified themselves as Rusyn. My father could speak both languages, but in later years it might take him a while to remember the exact word he was looking for. (It really drove us kids nuts at Christmas when they would talk about presents in front of us and we didn't understand that much Rusyn!)

I am the youngest of seven kids. My eldest sibling was born in 1940. I was born in 1960. I can just imagine what it would have been like for someone in the late 1950's or early 60's to bring a "friend" of either gender to a Rusyn Liturgy. The language, the incense, the vestments, etc. So that generation wanted to abandon their ethnicity as fast as possible. To "Americanize" so as not to seem wierd. (Your friend is humming "Hounddog" while you're humming "Svate Boze." That will work!)

Flash forward--I cant' get enough of my heritage. I want so much to be able to honor my grandparents and those that came before and the sacrifices they made.

So I do understand that part. But was there any other reason? Is that possibly the reason we are now faced with an RDL without any Slavonic? I've heard from one perosn involved with the RDL that one of the reasons as far as he can remember is that to put things in English and Slavonic would have made the book too big. Could it be there is a deliberate movement still to "de-ethincise" our Church?

That would be a shame--and also a misake. Ask any church what their biggest fundraiser is. And it isn't Bingo or a "sock hop." It's the Ethnic Festivals. The food, the culture, the dress, the language. People today are embracing diversity and ethnicities. There is a backlash against "Americanization." Pushing the ethnicity is the way to go. Not only will it get people interested in our church, it might help us collect money to help our Rusyn brothers and sisters across the pond.

Tim
ps--and the little Yuschenko boy is adorable! He really does steal the show in those pictures. He's such a cute little towheaded boy!