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Just a side note, I dont believe that that there are only a limited number of Orthodox Christians in the world. I am not HOCNA.

In Christ
Nektarios

The aim of this forum is for Christians, both East and West, to meet, discuss and natter away the day in relative peaceful enjoyment. If they disagree, then they do so with magnimanity and love in the hearts - not outright condemnation.

Unfortunately, you seem determined to act as a veritable carping critic. Where is the evidence that the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope commune? I am a historian and I like to have some evidence before me - but for that assumption, I see none whatsoever.

I have had my disagreements with people on this board but that did not preclude me from exercising Christian love and charity. You seem to have failed in this endeavour.

Take a look at "balaban" - I found his posts to be enjoyable, deep and learned and whilst he does have disagreements here with people, it is enjoyable to read the posts and counterposts. Look to him as an example of how to behave.

And lastly, Anhelyna is a charming lady who is a delight to swap occasional e-mails...even if I only read the four pricinple British papers.... :p

Xhristos Voshreshi!

Anton

Nektarios,

It scares me that my Bulgarian brother points to Balaban as a role model , but let me speak to the basic point that he makes. I won't take the tack of denigrating your typing style - I think that's unfair. Not all here have any degree of skill in it and there isn't a spell-checker built into the Forum; nor, quite honestly, did we complain about your typing style (which was no different) when you were "one of us" - so, why now?

"One of us" - what do I mean by that? Do I mean when you were an inquirer into the East? When you were an Eastern Catholic (Melkite? I believe; at least I recollect that to be what your Mom is)? When you were leaning toward and studying the possibility of turning to Orthodoxy?

I mean any of those times. When you posted among us with curiousity, expressed your opinions, dialogued. Being "one of us" is being a productive member of this Forum; someone who contributes; who says what they believe and even defends it, when necessary, but does so in a spirit of charity toward others. We are all very different here, Nektarios. I've said this before - think about the folks you know here - not as promoters of a concept (ecumenism) that you abhore, but as individuals, because that is what we are. Where else can you go on the web and have honest and respectful discussion of one another's beliefs with people whose religious bents so cross the spectrum? Nowhere, trust me.

I am a cradle Latin who found his spiritual home in Byzantine Catholicity. Here, I gather with people from a wide range of Orthodox Church jurisdictions, from probably half the Eastern Catholic Churches, with Latins whose leanings are toward the East, with other Latins who merely find it interesting and who span the continuum from traditional to - at least -moderate, with Protestants from a variety of traditions - mostly, but not all, High Church. Our commonality is not that we want to convert one another, but that we find it interesting, educational, and perhaps sometimes edifying, to talk to one another. Do most, if not all of us, hope and pray for the day that there will be reconciliation among the Churches? I think so - is that wrong? You may term active ecumenism heretical, seeing communicatio in spiritibus as a short step from communicatio in sacris, but you cannot believe that reunion of God's peoples would be something that He would find abhorrent. Believe, if you will, that it should (and actually can) only occur spontaneously, through the intercession of the Holy Spirit, with no prior discussion among the divided bodies which claim to love Him; but don't deny that it is a laudable and to-be-hoped for end.

Express yourself without denigrating the beliefs of others, without expression of such outrageous incredulity that even the most conservative could not swear before God to believe it - the laughable spectre of the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Roman Pontiff secretly communing each other in some hidden recess behind an altar or iconostasis.

I treasure my Orthodox fellow posters here. Alice, my Greek sister, who so exquisitely bridges all the chasms between and among the Churches with her genuine Christian charity, her appreciation for all that is good and beautiful - both physically and spiritually - in each Church, and her true abhorrence for all that is hateful and ugly, regardless of which Church tradition spawned it. Ghazar, my Armenian brother, so recently having turned to his Orthodox heritage, but whose website is a beautiful testament of respect for both the Catholic and Orthodox traditions of his ancestral homeland. Andrew, my Albanian brother, who speaks so clearly as to his beliefs, defends them, but does so with a level of respect for the opposing views of others that he effectively neutralizes those who would even want to take offense.

They are only 3 - there are so many others whom I could name - but, I'd forget one and feel bad about it. There's no reason that you cannot remain here, be as conservative in your beliefs as you choose, but still be a contributing and respected member of the Forum; it's your decision. If you are of a mind to avoid all contact with we heretics - Catholic, Orthodox, Protestants- then I guess you'll soon be posting to the internet from a hermitage, which - last I thought about it - was one of the few places that one can readily be assured of not having to commune (in the social sense) with the other sinful denizens of Earth.

God grant you many years,

Neil

(whose mission in life of late seems to be to point out and try to preserve the unique and beautiful nature of this place)

Dear AntonI,

You know I love you, but I am confused. 'Balaban' was definitely not charitable nor a pleasure...besides being rude to me and others, his style was to talk AT people rather than to them. I believe that his agenda was nothing but pure 'beat em down' prosletysm, and he offended most of us in the end, including our wise administrator.

With love in Christ,
Alice

I think perhaps I did not express myself as well as I hoped...

I think what I was trying to say was that whilst "balaban" had very strong views, and expressed it (often to the detriment of many) "...Ascetic" seems to just like making harsh criticisms. I did not mean that we should hold him up as an example rather that at least "balaban" tried to bring theological reasons, not just attacks...but I guess I wasn't clear...don't know if I succeeded with this email though....

I certainly do not approve of attacks on the wonderful people here!

Anton

Please give us one picture showing the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome concelebrating the Eucharist together.

If you can't, retract your statement. Remember that lying and slandering are sins...

Christian

I know that the ROAC has lots and lots of pictures with the EP and the Pope and the Pope and the EP plus a few other people belonging to other religions doing joint prayer services.

My mom and I converted to the Byzantine Catholic Church together about 2 Holy Saturdays ago, and I was recently baptized into the Orthodox Church this Holy Saturday.

My goal here is not to tear down the beliefs of others or be "uncharitable" as every body keeps saying over and over and over again... I merely express my opinions, I originally thought thats what this forum was about, but I guess if your opinions is not in line with every body eles you should be kicked off, sounds kind of like nazi germany.

As far as my comment about the Pope of Rome and the EP communioning each other, its just a theory of mine, seeing how they do so much already together I have no doubts but thats my personel thoughts.

Poor Sinner In Christ
Nektarios

Well I am glad the ROCA has pictures of the EP and Pope and what not together...it shows they are friendly towards each other and praying together doesn't mean what you are implying it means. By your definition, the various religious figures which appeared in the New York (?) stadium to commemorate September 11 were also guilty of your accusation?

Anton

P.S. And how do you know that the Pope and the EP are very close? Do you have some mystical link that allows you to see this? Are you omniesicent?

I think this might be the elusive link:

http://www.russianorthodoxautonomou.../kiss_of_judascontents%20page%20new1.htm

(Could they make a longer URL? :p )

Dave

I really think that this thread has had its day

Please would Admin or Moderators close it [ and remove this link} .

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Dear in Christ Nektarios,

Honor the name you now bear, by keeping charity with others.

John13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

HE said so...not by keeping laws, and making judgments. Look to your heart to find the love of Christ there, and look always to see it in others, and be gentle towards them.

The Nazis you referred to had only hate for others. It might be argued that they were expressing their opinions...but opinions without the love of Christ are wrong, even if they follow the Canons. Thus ROAC is exposed for what it is. There is no love there.

Gaudior, who prays for you.

Christ is Risen!

I cant say that I am a Fan of the ROAC, but I will not say that there is no love there, that would be assumeing some thing that we both have no Idea about.

Yes that would be the link, from the ROAC. Why remove it?

In Christ
Nektarios

Someone has just e-mailed me a picture of Daniel / StBenedictRule / ByzantineAscetic / Nektarios standing near his Antiochian Orthodox pastor during the celebration of the Divine Liturgy. This is proof positive that Daniel is an ecumenist and a heretic. You see, Daniel is in communion with his pastor. His pastor is in communion with and concelebrates with the Antiochian Archbishop, Metropolitan Philip. Metropolitan Philip is communion with and concelebrates with His Holiness, Patriarch Ignatius IV of Antioch. His Holiness, Patriarch Ignatius IV of Antioch is in communion with and concelebrates with His All-Holiness, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople.

Yes. Proof positive that Daniel communes with people he has publicly and repeatedly denounced as heretics!

No, this is not a little fun at Daniel�s expense. It is an extension of the logic he has used in composing his posts. I can only again ask him to print out copies of all his posts on the Forum this week and seek the council of his PASTOR. The people he appears to be looking to for information about Orthodoxy are obviously members of a cult. I hope that everyone who knows him and knows his pastor will send him copies of Daniel�s posts.

With prayers and concern for Daniel,

Admin

Very intresting you say I have denounced all the Orthodox Patirarchates as Gracless Heretics. I would like to see the quote where I have said this. Because that is a flat out lie. I more along the lines said "I am not an Orthodox who only believe that there are a limmited number of Orthodox in the world, I am not HOCNA." thats alittle more along the lines to which I have said. Please get your information right admin and stop puting words in my mouth, its "uncharitiable".

In Christ
Nektarios

P.S. I dont know if you were serious about the picture, because I have never been in a picture at my parish other then my baptism. Also, my mom didnt even watch my baptism. If you were really serious.