www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Mother Teresa's spiritual desert

There is an interesting article about Mother Teresa's drought of spiritual experiences for about 50 years. (I heard Fr. Groeschel say the same thing on EWTN several times in the past.) The article is based on a new book that publishes some of her letters on the subject. This is not a slur; it's a worthy article form anyone who is facing spiritual doubts or who is interested in Mother Teresa. It is 6 pages long, so I did not copy it here. Instead, here is the link.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415-1,00.html

-- John

John,

Thanks for this info. I had heard that this book was coming in September or thereabouts. My understanding is that this kind of direct testimony from Mother Teresa has not been forthcoming while they were gathering her writings and others' testimony for her process of canonization.

Thanks,
Michael

After reading this I wonder if her experience is close to what it would be like to be shown the face of God and then released to go about our life.

I heard of her struggle soon after her death in an article from First Things.

Terry

Is there anything in Byzantine or Russian spirituality akin to the Dark Night of the Soul?

does something really need to be written, most real Christians go through a Dark Night of the Soul at least one time or another.
Much Love,
Jonn

Her "dark night" lasted from 1948 until her death. It was very disturbing to read her writtings. If someone like St. Mother Teresa can't be happy then what hope is there for us?

Please read the article from Times magazine:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html

I find it comforting to hear that great men and women go through the same agonizing experiences that I do. This "dark night" is a recurring experience in my own life. That it lasted so long and that she never pulled out of it prior to her death is interesting and, I suspect, will be scrutinized during the canonization process. Personally, I don't think I can conclude anything from it. Clearly, she saw and lived with evil and suffering in the world in a way that few of us do. I would think that years of working with sick, dying people who are cast out and hopeless would have a tremendous impact on anyone.

There are many, most notably the self-proclaimed apologists for atheism (Christopher Hitchens) and anti-catholic protestants who will see all of this as evidence that Mother Theresa was really living a lie. In the world of my baptist upbringing, true believers didn't have these kinds of experiences. If you had this level of extensive doubt, you were probably unsaved, or so the general opinion was. Thankfully, I am no longer influenced by that kind of false piety.

In answering your question, Ray, I would suggest that perhaps we are not supposed to be happy in this life, in the fullest sense of the word "happy." There is a kind of holy sadness that we should feel when reflecting upon our world. Overall, the world really is a horrible place for the vast majority of people and always has been. We are somewhat sheltered (distracted?) from the horror because of the conditions of modern living. But that simply opens us up for new horrors. Indeed, we have to live with the horror of a seemingly infinite boredom experienced in this life of wealth and leisure.

Truthfully, if I weren't a Christian, I'd be a buddhist. I think that buddhism is the only religion, other than Christianity, that has an answer to the horror of being alive.

Joe

Joe,

Good post...

However, there is one thing Jesus did promise us on this Earth. "My peace I give you." What is this peace? Why did St. Mother Teresa not have this peace? Why do I not have this peace?

Actually it might suprise you that St Teresa of Avila actually doubted the very existence of God! Right up until her death and yet she prevailed. Rather than be dishearted or dismayed this should give us courage and hope.
It is God sifting us so that the chaff may be rubbed off and the pure wheat remain.
Stephanos I
PS The best spiritual times of my life has been when things were the worst for me.

Ray S.:

May I suggest that "the peace from above" is a gift from above. Like faith, it is a gift one asks for and asks for and asks for . . . And God gives it to those He wishes to give it to.

The same Jesus Who said "My peace I give you" is the same Jesus Who also said that the Father chastises those He loves. Given that and an excellent article posted elsewhere on the forum, I would like to suggest that this life, if we are to be like Jesus, is to be a life of suffering, pain, rejection, and crucifixion in order that we may rise with Him on the day He calls and be found on the Right Hand on the Great Day.

Whenever I find myself being rejected, humiliated, scorned, or otherwise marginalized, I remember an answer I once made to the question, "IF you could ask Jesus, face to Face, for one thing what would it be?" That answer contineus to be "Keep me close to You always."

Somewhere I've read that those who feel the most abandoned are those who are closest to God--I think the phrase was that He is "the Alone to the alone." And I still can't penetrate the meaning of this phrase even for a beginning. Maybe some day He will send someone to explain it to me.

For the peace that is from above, for the Heavenly peace, for the peace of soul that the world cannot give and cannot know, that it will sink into the hearts of all the People of God, let us pray to the Lord,

BOB

Living with the Icons of Man's Inhumanity to Man, as Blessed Teresa did, I'm not surprised to hear that she felt a bit empty.

But she still preached the Gospel in season and out of season, she lived what she believed. She definitely lived up to Our Lord's admonitions in St. Matthew's Gospel in Chapter 25.

I also remember that St. Paul was also tested like this, wasn't he?

Bob,


That is not how I interpreted what Christ meant (which is most likely the problem - I should try and understand what the Church says). The way I interpreted it to mean that Christ would allow us the knowledge to know what is right and wrong and give us the "Peace" for following what is right. Why then did St. Mother Teresa not know this "Peace"?

I try to do what is right (go to Church every Sunday, pray, etc...) where is this "Peace"? Perhaps I have "Peace" but don't know it. If I was in a grave sinful state then I might be miserable. Like a drug addict, etc...

All over the news tonight, 'oh Mother Teresa, didn't didn't really believed what she spoke or practiced'.

You know, I understand why she wanted her papers burned, and I understand why they didn't do it. But, what she was concerned about happening is happening.

Lord of the Powers be with us, for in times of distress we have no other help but You.
Lord of the Powers, have mercy on us.

Ray S.:

I think what you mean is the "Grace" for knowing what is right--or the nudge of conscience or the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

From what I've read of this wonderful spiritual gift, it is a state of soul wherein nothing and nobody is able to break the focus of the one gifted from God, the intimate knowledge of His Ever-Preseent Providential Hand in everything that affects the one gifted. That is what is meant when one offers to another, "Don't let anyone or anything disturb your peace."

We pray at the beginning of the Great Ektenia of Peace: "For the peace from above and for the salvation of our souls . . ." That elusive quality--that gift--wherein we are intimately aware of Christ dwelling in us and the promises He has made forming the core of our very being--dwells in that place so deep inside that no one but God can see in and really know how sincere we are--that is the peace of Christ, the peace from above, the Heavenly peace.

This peace is the core from which we can still continue to battle the onslaughts of the Enemy but remain undisturbed by what puts others in a panic.

I think I experienced it once--a time when it seemed to envelope me. I was without work, having been out of work and in therapy for almost three years. I was being constantly hounded by the insurance company. I was at a point where I knew I was too young to retire, too much in pain to sustain full time work or another academic degree, and didn't know if I would lose everything--financial, family, etc. I walked along during my morning walk--to relieve constant sciatica--and I stopped in the middle of my prayers and said, "Lord, if you want me to die behind the barbecue pit here in this park, do with me what You will. Just, please, don't let my family starve." And at that point a weight lifted from me and a feeling of profound peace settled into my whole being. It settled in, covered me over, surrounded me--all at the same time. I finished my walk and felt as if I were walking a foot off the ground. It was at the point of complete and total surrender to Divine Providence.

I lost that feeling and that profound peace when I started back on my old habit of trying to manipulate my own world and control my own course.

So, I don't think the peace we are talking about is derived from doing what is right. It follows an act of surrender-- COMPLETE surrender. But it is not something we can manipulate God to give us--as if by some formula. I may never experience this again. Some saints have it and you can sense in their presence taht profound quality. Some never have it but struggle along anywa. God gives to each of us the gifts He knows we need to attain to the perfection He wills for us. We jsut need to surrender and go with Him and His Will.

In Christ,

BOB

Pani Rose:

Those with absolutely no experience of the spiritual life will never understand what is contained in these letters. The children of the Kingdom will understand; the children of this world will not. Just as so many who heard Jesus speak didn't "get it" and those who were His own did. The question is whether we allow this to disturb our peace. Mother Teresa is a saint not because she was perfect, but because she lived an ordinary life with extraordinary efforts to become like Christ and to reflect Him to the world. "Blessed are they who have not seen but who believe."

BOB

AMEN BOB, AMEN!

Bob,


Didn't G_d say in the OT that we could put HIM to the test by following HIS law? I am not saying I am following HIS law, but I don't think I am heretic. Shouldn't I get a "C" for effort? "C" is a passing grade...

Ray,

I believe that God always gives us that which is best for us. Sometimes it is better for us not to have the kind of tranquility we seek. Perhaps, it is best for some of us never to have that in this life. We may not fully understand but who can understand the full scope of divine providence?

Joe

Ray S.:


Didn't Jesus say, in answer to the Enemy, that we ARE NOT to put the Lord Our God to the test? (Matt 4:7) "You shall not put the Lord, Your God, to the test." (cf., Dt 6:16)

I don't understand your reference to yourself as a "heretic." We do not obtain gifts or are refused gifts from God based on that kind of status. Both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches affirm that the Holy Spirit blows where He wills and bestows His gifts on whomever He pleases. So this one has me puzzled.

The idea of our own "effort" is precisely the point. We do not EARN the gifts of God, as if we could even do so. A gift is precisely that--something given without the giver being obligated or the recipient having any claim on the gift.

Some of us get simple, short glimpses, if you will, of the good things God has in store for us in the life to come. Some struggle to even persevere to the end--such, it seems, was the case of Mother Theresa, if her letters are to be believed. I have come to the conclusion that everything that happens to us here in this pilgrimage--the good, the bad, the happy, the sad, and the glad--is for the sole purpose of having us turn to God: for thanksgiving, for petition, for contrition, and for pure adoration of His Majestic Providence toward us.

Sometimes the pilgrimage is marked by long periods of such dryness and a sense that we are abandoned by God that people cannot pray, they cannot feel any comfort, they cannot seem to believe that God even exists. Sometimes the pilgrimage is filled with a sense that God is near, that great joy is something that fills us and will last indefinitely. In all this, God is refining us along the path that He wished us to have from all eternity and He will explain it to us in the Kngdom if we but surrender, use His grace, and persevere. There are no grades here; just a call to holiness within His Church and with the means He has given His Church to mediate to us.

In Christ,

BOB

I heard the information about Mother Theresa the other night on the NBC news at 6:30. Somehow, being surrounded by the abject poverty, inhumanity and apathy that is a city like Calcutta would have to deeply affect anyone. Even if they were already a saint. How can one see the suffering day after day, year after year and know that what she did for decades was only a drop in the bucket and in the long run doesn't even show up as a blip on the radar screen of humanity? How does one continue? I don't know. But the fact is that she did continue. And set an example for others. Saints were people too. Everyone doubts at one time or another. I know her doubts lasted longer than a day or two, but the grinding poverty and problems she say daily would have to get to anyone sooner or later.

No one said being a Christian made things easy or perfect. Jesus did not promise that if you believe in him your earthly life will be wonderful and without any problems or doubts or bad days. He promised something else. And maybe that's exactly what happened to Mother Theresa.

Tim

Amen, and well said. I find it immensely inspiring to me, a sinner, that someone as holy as Mother Teresa was plagued by doubts too. And yet, she persevered. She kept doing good and confessing the Gospel despite the doubts. And that's why it's called: faith.

-- John

The full fruits of Mother Teresa's labors will not be realized until we are long gone from this earthly existence.

I don't think I have ever doubted the existence of God. I have wondered, at times, why there is so much evil in this world and how He could permit it all. Then, I need to remind myself that God's ways are far above my own comprehension, and it is not necessary to understand, but to believe and act upon that belief.

This morning I was asked to proclaim a pericope from the Letter to the Hebrews: Hebrews 12:5-7, 11-13. I share it because I think we all forget how we, as Christians, should look at pain, suffering, tragdey, etc.

What about Mother Teresa's Orthodoxy?

There have been criticisms because while she certainly held a nouble labour by aiding the pour and for that reason she must have gone to Heaven. it's said that some declarations she made do not meet the standards of Roman Catholic Orthodoxy.

It's said that she held views that ressemble religious indifferentism and false ecumenism, that she did not do enough to convert the poor Pagans in India to Christianity, even though she helped them.

If she would have combined her support of the poor with an intense apostolate to convert those poor souls in India who are still worshiping idols that ressemble devils and cows, she would have been one of the greatest saints of all history.

Mexican,

I suggest you contact the Congregation for the Causes of Saints if you dispute the decision they came too. I'm sure St Teresa of India is a Saint despite those really terrible omissions that you have brought up <rolls eyes> She did more for those "poor souls" as you choose to call them then anyone you or I have EVER done in charity and love for God.
She IS a Great Saint!

Mexican:

Glory be to Jesus Christ!! Glory be to Him forever and ever!!!

I think in this day and age that evangelization has to take a new face than simply preaching to the poor pagans. Populations have education today that they did not have in the past and world-wide access to television, the internet, etc. With that in mind, it's much more difficult to simply preach.

In the past, missionaries did what St. Teresa did: first they started to show what the fruit of Christian love is about and then let their example draw others to Christ. India is a Hindu country with a long history and a rigid social system. By stepping out of the Hindu religion, one loses his social status and becomes the lowest class--the untouchables. So to become Christian takes a lot more courage than it did for those in Europe, the Americas, or Africa. That St. Teresa received a state funeral is testimony to the profound effect she had on the society she lived, worked, and witnessed in.

In Christ,

BOB

Evangelizing can take many forms. Has anyone of us ever watched even a part of a Jerry Falwell or other televeangelist program? Did the hand clapping and singing and hand waving and "testifying" convert you from your faith? Did the slick television production techniques and canned laughter/applause really convince you this person was correct and had the answers? Did the music sway your soul and make it soar? Did the people being "cured" of their health problems grab you by the throat and make you want to watch more? Why? Words are cheap. Actions speaks louder than words. The Holy Spirit is found in many things but not cheap television effects. And when a televangelist says something such as "God told me that if you don't donate 2 million dollars within a certain amount of time, he'll call me to heaven!" Honestly. Let the Holy Spirit take him. She can deal with him, I'd rather not.

Mother Theresa knew that putting a condition on helping the poor is a terrible way to present God's love. Which is unconditional with the exception of "loving they neighbor" and a few others. Which is in exact contradiction to many tenets of other religions which have a caste system, such as India. To try to convince the poor that by accepting food they have to turn their backs on a culture and traditions thousands of years old...well...I sure wouldn't want to do it. Not for some food. Would you convert from your religion to Hindu if you were hungry and someone promised you food if you converted? I doubt it. Martyrs died rather than convert, with or without food. And sometimes pretty terrible deaths.

My wife plays the organ/piano in churches for some extra money and I recall sitting in during a Lutheran service and a guest speaker was a missionary who spent decades in Korea. How did he and his wife convert Koreans to Lutheranism? Not by being conditional. But by just being there and showing the example of Christ and his attitude towards everyone. And a predominantly Buddhist/Taoist society is inward looking, very personal and ignoring other's and their problems in society for the sake of the "self." While Christianity is the exact opposite. They converted people by giving and giving and giving, all without expecting anything in return. It worked quite well for them. They shared their food, their fuel in winter, their clothes, everything they had. And the Koreans took note.

The conquistadors tried the heavy handed approach with the natives in Central and South America. Look where that lead. The sad part is the missionaries truly did think that burning natives alive was better for their souls than allowing them to remain pagan. Talk about your distorted messages of "love thy neighbor!"

Tim

TIM:

Couldn't agree with you more.

BOB

Tim,

I don't know where you get the idea that the Spanish Franciscan and Jesuit missionaries shared the views of their secular confreres, but I think that is mostly modern urban legend. Perhaps there were some with a less than Christian attitute (I'm not aware of any), but the overwhelming majority of them were self-sacrificing believers in the Gospel, who frequently defended the Indians against the ravages of those seeking wealth and power. Perhaps not the same simplicity of life of Mother Teresa, but still pretty simple.

Michael

Are there anti-proselytization laws in India?

Yes there are, usually at the state and local levels of government. Usually, it's because of Hindu fundamentalism and nationalism. (Usually, this was tolerated if not encouraged by the Hindu-nationalist party, the BJP, or one of its minions.)

Hindu fundamentalism and nationalism is popular (but controversial) in India because of immense insecurity at the core of the Indian/Hindu psyche. That insecurity, in turn, is from centuries of (often violent) domination by Persian Muslims and European Christians. The sad response, once India became independent, was often Hindu fundamentalism and nationalism; and that can (and has) expressed itself as violent, fanatical intolerance. That includes anti-conversion laws: which originally created against Islam but which were increasing applied against Christianity.

For just one of many online articles on the subjct, see http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/op/2002/12/17/stories/2002121700110200.htm or search via Google for "anti conversion india."

-- John

Mexican,

I think Tim, Bob and Brian responded very well to your post.

God bless.

-- John

"I don't know where you get the idea that the Spanish Franciscan and Jesuit missionaries shared the views of their secular confreres, but I think that is mostly modern urban legend. Perhaps there were some with a less than Christian attitute (I'm not aware of any), but the overwhelming majority of them were self-sacrificing believers in the Gospel, who frequently defended the Indians against the ravages of those seeking wealth and power. Perhaps not the same simplicity of life of Mother Teresa, but still pretty simple."

You are correct and I apologize for my incorrect statement. I did not word it properly. I'm sure the missionaries (at least for the most part) went with the best intention and did everything they could to stop the conquistadors who were bent on profit at any cost. In fact, I was advised that there was even some backlash against those orders back in Spain and Portugal because the missionaries tried to help the natives, not hurt them. It's a dangerous generalization to say that 100% of any group is entirely bad or good, so there might have been a few missionaries who did not mind seeing someone get hurt "for the good of their own souls," but I'm sure that most did all they could to lead by Christ's example. I apologize for my clumsy statement earlier and thank you for your correction. I try to make sure my facts are straight.

Tim

ps--thanks, Harmon 3110, I appreciate it

Friends,

As a follow-up on this discussion, and in case you missed it, there is a very interesting article from Chiesa by Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa on Blessed Teresa and her "darkness" in relation to the descriptions by other mystics of the phenomenon of "mystical darkness":

Chiesa on Blessed Teresa of Calcutta [chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it]

Father Benedict Groeschel had this book as his topic this evening on his EWTN Live program. He says that he met Mother just a short time before her death and it appeared to him that this had passed--as if she had been given the word that her own pilgrimage was to be soon over.

In Christ,

BOB