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Any recommendations on books to read to better understand papal primacy as exercised in the first millennium of Christianity?

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From a western point of view, "Jesus, Peter & The Keys" gives a good outline and monograph of patristic thought on the question of papal primacy. It is not a history and its focus is not on how papal primacy was "exercised", but it may be a good book to add to any others which are suggested.

Terry

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I would suggest...

Two Paths: Papal Monarchy-Collegial Tradition by Michael Welton, you should be able to get it from Regina Orthodox Press

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As an Orthodox Christian, I would most definitely not recommend Whelton's polemical book. In my humble opinion, polemical takes (whether they be Orthodox or Catholic) are very, very rarely helpful in shedding light on complex theological and historical issues.

I would highly recommend Olivier Clement's You Are Peter [amazon.com] for a more balanced, irenic Orthodox take on papal primacy. I would also recommend this collection [amazon.com] of essays by both Orthodox and Catholic scholars.

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Originally Posted by Job
I would suggest...

Two Paths: Papal Monarchy-Collegial Tradition by Michael Welton, you should be able to get it from Regina Orthodox Press
James Likoudis countered Whelton in his book The Divine Primacy...[part of Likoudis' trilogy 1-Ending the Schism, 2-The Divine Primacy and 3- EO and the See of Peter]

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I would recommend Papal Primacy: From Its Origins to the Present [amazon.com] by Klaus Schatz.

Although written from a Western perspective (the author is a Jesuit Priest), I believe he gives a fair account of the history of papal primacy through the centuries.

I also recommend Clement's "You Are Peter", which was mentioned by another poster.


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Originally Posted by francis
I would recommend Papal Primacy: From Its Origins to the Present [amazon.com] by Klaus Schatz.

Although written from a Western perspective (the author is a Jesuit Priest), I believe he gives a fair account of the history of papal primacy through the centuries.

I also recommend Clement's "You Are Peter", which was mentioned by another poster.

Yes I agree. The work by Schatz is scholarly and well balanced. Clement's work is excellent as is the collection of essays edited by Father Meyendorff on the primacy of Peter.

Whelton's book is okay but it is too polemical and falls into the same traps that I see Roman Catholic apologetics work. I don't care for James Likoudas' work, on this subject or any other to be frank. I think he is just polemical and one-sided as Whelton. And, I also think that many of the popular Roman Catholic apologetic works such as Stephen Ray's "Upon This Rock," are simply shoddy. If you want to read real theologians and historians on this subject, read:

Klaus Schatz, S.J.
Yves Congar
John Meyendorff
Kallistos Ware
Aidan Nichols, O.P. "Rome and the Eastern Churches" is very good.
Jarislov Pelikan
Olivier Clement "Thou Art Peter" is excellent
Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn
Cardinal Walter Kasper
Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger)

Some might recommend Hans Urs Von Balthasar as well, but I wouldn't. I really question his reading of Church history and frankly, while he was a brilliant theologian, I think he was too subjective and too much influenced by Adrien Von Speyr. Indeed, Von Balthasar holds views that I consider heretical but that is another subject.

JS

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Originally Posted by JSMelkiteOrthodoxy
Originally Posted by francis
I would recommend Papal Primacy: From Its Origins to the Present [amazon.com] by Klaus Schatz.

Although written from a Western perspective (the author is a Jesuit Priest), I believe he gives a fair account of the history of papal primacy through the centuries.

I also recommend Clement's "You Are Peter", which was mentioned by another poster.

Yes I agree. The work by Schatz is scholarly and well balanced. Clement's work is excellent as is the collection of essays edited by Father Meyendorff on the primacy of Peter.

Whelton's book is okay but it is too polemical and falls into the same traps that I see Roman Catholic apologetics work. I don't care for James Likoudas' work, on this subject or any other to be frank. I think he is just polemical and one-sided as Whelton. And, I also think that many of the popular Roman Catholic apologetic works such as Stephen Ray's "Upon This Rock," are simply shoddy. If you want to read real theologians and historians on this subject, read:

Klaus Schatz, S.J.
Yves Congar
John Meyendorff
Kallistos Ware
Aidan Nichols, O.P. "Rome and the Eastern Churches" is very good.
Jarislov Pelikan
Olivier Clement "Thou Art Peter" is excellent
Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn
Cardinal Walter Kasper
Pope Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger)

Some might recommend Hans Urs Von Balthasar as well, but I wouldn't. I really question his reading of Church history and frankly, while he was a brilliant theologian, I think he was too subjective and too much influenced by Adrien Von Speyr. Indeed, Von Balthasar holds views that I consider heretical but that is another subject.

JS

Joe,

I agree with your assesment of Whelton and to some extent Likoudis, although he is in part responding to Whelton's polemics. Whelton just seems to represent (a kinder word than I want to use) anti-papal polemics, rather than offer anything new or insightful. Give me the thoughtful treatment of a John Meyendorff, Aidan Nichols or a Olivier Clement any day!

Two books that I would add to your marvellous list (I do have Ratzinger's treatment of the papacy, BTW.). Both of them are by JM Tillard:

The Bishop of Rome
Church of Churches: Ecclesiology of Communion

God bless,

Gordo

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Whelton just seems to represent (a kinder word than I want to use) anti-papal polemics, rather than offer anything new or insightful.

Gordo...

I don't think someone who is an Orthodox Christian can "offer anything new" it is what it is and has been for centuries...To me that is one of the interesting differences between "Catholics in Communion with Rome" and "Orthodox not in communion with Rome"...Whelton states what he knows to be the case, and doesn't sugarcoat things...

Chris

PS Why do I feel like the new Boroslav??? smile

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Originally Posted by Job
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Whelton just seems to represent (a kinder word than I want to use) anti-papal polemics, rather than offer anything new or insightful.

Gordo...

I don't think someone who is an Orthodox Christian can "offer anything new" it is what it is and has been for centuries...To me that is one of the interesting differences between "Catholics in Communion with Rome" and "Orthodox not in communion with Rome"...Whelton states what he knows to be the case, and doesn't sugarcoat things...

Chris

PS Why do I feel like the new Boroslav??? smile

Chris,

When I said "offer anything new," I meant something other than the Jack Chick version of Orthodox anti-Catholic polemics that seems to appear every now and then.

I'm diabetic, so I don't use sugar either. grin

Gordo

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When I said "offer anything new," I meant something other than the Jack Chick version of Orthodox anti-Catholic polemics that seems to appear every now and then.

Well if the person who started this thread...was looking for beginning reading...he should get 'Orthodox anti-"roman" catholic polemics' to counter balance the Roman Catholic anti-Orthodox polemics...and I'm sure you would believe as I do, someone needs to know the basics before jumping in...reading the polemics on both sides gives a basic view of where each side is coming from...hopefully, starting with the basic polemics will prompt a person to dig deeper...not stay with the cursory polemical view...

Chris

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Originally Posted by Job
Well if the person who started this thread...was looking for beginning reading...he should get 'Orthodox anti-"roman" catholic polemics' to counter balance the Roman Catholic anti-Orthodox polemics...

Chris,

Quite honestly, apart from James Likoudis, I can't even name one anti-Orthodox Catholic polemical work. If you can name some, let me know.

I can count on multiple fingers and toes, however, a number anti-Catolic Orthodox polemical books....and counting!

God bless,

Gordo

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Originally Posted by ebed melech
Quite honestly, apart from James Likoudis, I can't even name one anti-Orthodox Catholic polemical work. If you can name some, let me know.

I can count on multiple fingers and toes, however, a number anti-Catholic Orthodox polemical books....and counting!
Sorry to disagree but James Likoudis is not Anti Orthodox.

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Originally Posted by melkiteman
Originally Posted by ebed melech
Quite honestly, apart from James Likoudis, I can't even name one anti-Orthodox Catholic polemical work. If you can name some, let me know.

I can count on multiple fingers and toes, however, a number anti-Catholic Orthodox polemical books....and counting!
Sorry to disagree but James Likoudis is not Anti Orthodox.

Strictly speaking, no - but his constant reference to them as "dissident Easterners" in his writings is not respectful either. I actually think it undermines his points. But there is no contesting the polemical nature of the work.

Gordo

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Originally Posted by ebed melech
Originally Posted by melkiteman
Originally Posted by ebed melech
Quite honestly, apart from James Likoudis, I can't even name one anti-Orthodox Catholic polemical work. If you can name some, let me know.

I can count on multiple fingers and toes, however, a number anti-Catholic Orthodox polemical books....and counting!
Sorry to disagree but James Likoudis is not Anti Orthodox.

Strictly speaking, no - but his constant reference to them as "dissident Easterners" in his writings is not respectful either. I actually think it undermines his points. But there is no contesting the polemical nature of the work.

Gordo

From what I've read, I'd put Whelton and Likoudis on the same plane as far as polemics goes. And I don't mind someone poviding a pointed and strongly worded argument for a position, but it is the name calling and all of the unnecessary non sequitors that I do not like. My thought I was reading Whelton's book was, "Well, most of this is basically correct I think in terms of facts, it is just too bad that he feels he has to go out of his way to denigrate Roman Catholics." That is just my impression. Perhaps, as a RC convert, he was just working through his own thoughts and feelings. But I think that this is where a good editor/reviewer is handy.

Joe

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