www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Parishes being run into the ground in the Eparchy of Passaic

Strong words stated here about property and money. A far cry from-------

Timothy 1 3:1-5
"This saying is trustworthy: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God?" (NAB)

Ed

I have been a visitor to The Church of the Resurrection over the past three years.
Respectfully asked, why would the Bishop allow this to continue? I find it hard to believe that he is not aware of the tone and attitude of the priest now placed there for the past year.
He must be aware of the 60 or so responses to the article that ran in Newsday.
And I also find it odd that this priest does not reach out to the congregation to smooth these very rough seas.
Why doesn't the Bishop make a visit to the church? This would alleviate many of the parishoners fears and concerns.
Are you aware that there is actually a sign placed on the property that states you may "NOT FEED THE ANIMALS"? I find this odd behavior.
Solo deo gloria.

I can only speak for Smithtown, having been a member for decades. People give (gave) what they could afford. The people who could afford more made up for the ones who couldn't, such as some of the elderly and some young families. My family would increase our donations whenever possible; I know for a fact that others did the same. Father Dan never rarely asked for donations of money; rather he requested donations of our time, and physical labor, which we gave willingly and to the best of our abilities, because we wanted our church to succeed and grow, and we took pride in it. We had many talented parishioners - carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc., who all donated their labor and the materials necessary for whatever projects and/or repairs were necessary around the church. We also had many and various fund-raising activities. Our nursery school brought in a steady income, and brought us many new parishioners, because the young families who enrolled their children were so impressed with the close parish family we had. We were still doing well financially, and spiritually, when our old pastor was fired, and our new pastor came in and began the systematic dismantling of all programs in the parish. So, in this instance, our particular church was well supported by it's parishioners.

Chris, I greatly appreciate your efforts in keeping this discussion going. It is necessary for the spiritual well-being of the people this is happening to. I myself shed tears this afternoon when I learned the thread was closed. I asked our Lord to intervene. He has answered my prayers.

Chris, as someone who is directly affected by what is going on in Smithtown, I can tell you that I would have felt quite differently about things if the bishop would have come to our church and told us that the eparchy needed money, and he regretfully had to close our church and sell the property. I would have been heartbroken, but I would have moved on and found another place to worship. The way this is being done is torturous and abusive, and it is causing many of the parishioners to question their faith, and that is not a nice thing to do to people, whether intentionally or not.

Meg, maybe I can offer some solace and advice.

What you hoped for actually happened in my (Latin rite Catholic) parish.

The bishop --to his credit, may God grant him many blessings-- actually came in person. He came not just to my parish; he came to all of the 23 parishes he was closing or merging that year. And he listened to us and our complaints and our pleas to remain open.

But, the bishop stuck to his position, explaining it again and again:
-- there is a priest shortage,
-- he does not have enough priests to staff all the parishes in his dioceses,
-- he will not allow priestless parishes in his diocese,
-- he therefore has to close some of the parishes,
-- he chose to close the parishes that he considered "not viable" because there they were low in numbers, old in population, or that had other Catholic parishes nearby. (My parish fell into the latter category.)

Now, on the one hand, it was very good of him to come in person and hear us and talk with us. May God bless him. It was also good that he gave us plenty of time (several months) to prepare. It would have been worse if the bishop had simply decreed our closure from afar or without warning.

On the other hand, it still hurt like the death of a loved one for our parish to be closed. Some did question their faith. Others were angry. Etc. It was like any other death.

But, like any other death, the living got back to living our lives. Most people found other Catholic parishes in the area to attend.

And, there were even happy blessings that came from this. Speaking personally, I came to the Eastern Church because of this (although that was something I had not planned). My parish had been closed, and I was looking for a new one, and there was this beautiful little Catholic church with onion domes on top that I had noticed before, and a little intuition told me to stop by . . . And the rest has been a very joyful history.

So, there is hope. The tough work is to get through the mourning and to go forward. If you want the Church of the Eucharist, you must accept the Church with the bishops . . . even though bishops sometimes have to make difficult and unpleasant decisions.

Accept the loss and find another parish. And, as Bob wisely reminded us: God's hand is, mysteriously, in all of this. He will guide you.

May God bless you, and all of your fellow parishioners, in all of this.

-- John

Without casting judgment on Bishop Andrew or any other particular bishop at the present time (I am in no position to do so), I would add that sometimes in the history of the Church bishops have made decisions that are not merely difficult or unpleasant, but thorougly sinful. Bishops who are habitually poor shepherds-or even worse, wolves appearing as shepherds-should not be followed, but rather, deposed-in my opinion.

Ryan

John..How blest you were in receiving an explanation as to what you were going to face when your former bishop came to you. We have treated as cruely as can be imagined in the past 2 years...from top to bottom...no visits, no explanations. Witnessing what is occurring is a form of dying, as you say, unlike any other death. However, as much as we hurt now, part of our solace will be that of even having had the experience of the past 32-plus years: Father Dan and a great Parish Family. We were blest. Our Church grounds were a busy hub just about any part of the day or night; and it was ours. Now it is dark; and the grounds, empty. However, I do believe and trust that He will guide each of us.

Your comments and prayers are helpful and truly appreciated by us.

Thank you, and may God bless you.

-- John

Ryan, I agree. There is a real distinction between unpleasant decisions and wrongdoing. If bishops (or anyone else in a postion of authority) has behaved wrongly, they should be punished and/or removed from office.

Now, as a practical matter, this leaves the people with two options.

(1) If the people have hard proof of criminal activity, they should speak with law enforcement and the prosecutor. That, by the way, is what is happening in the OCA: where there are strong allegations of finacial wrongdoing.

(2) Otherwise, the only thing the people can do is withdraw: either withdrawing their money from the church or withdrawing themselves --leaving-- for another church.

-- John

I concur, and the only comment I have to make regarding this is the following: If a bishop has complete authority over the physical and financial assets of his eparchy, and all the parishes therein, is it not then his obligation to exercise that authority in a way that does not cause a crisis of
faith in his subjects? Just wondering.

We are talking about one bishop here, not the entire Byzantine Catholic Church. Besidess Eastern Orthodoxy is not exactly perfect either... you have Judas's in your Church too.

Yes, one would think that he has an obligation to exercise due diligence regarding the souls in his jurisdiction. However, there is probably Only One who will ultimately judge this and we may not be around to witness the sentence. It will happen, I believe.

I agree...the eastern Orthodox churches have their own problems...the OCA is a good example of a parish with "financial indiscretions" that seems to mirror the BCC...Part of the problem is at least in the HT situation all of the BCC bishops were kept informed with the situation...nothing happened...nothing was done...although the other bishops can't really "do anything" outside their respective eparchies...the one thing they can do is put on pressure...at least in the OCA financial scandals...Archbishop Job has publically come out and challenged Metropolitan Herman publicly...several times...the fellow bishops of the BCC sit by and do nothing...

Oh...by the way...I don't remember if it was this thread or the one that was closed...I did suggest leaving "en masse" but not only did I suggest the Orthodox but I did suggest the Romainian Catholics as well...

Chris

Chris,
I read one of the more recent posts from the Newsday article where parishioners in Smithtown were told recently (paraphrased)they wouldn't be permitted to have a funeral in the church if they don't use their envelopes. This priest knows full well the church is headed for supression, and some of these parishioners have been there for decades. I don't understand the mentality here- well, I do understand it, but would rather not.

My question- didn't you say your priest had the nerve to take a collection at the very last Liturgy at HT? This was the same day the priests were 'protected' by armed guards, correct?

As far as I am concerned, the sale of the Smithtown property should bring in more than enough $$$$. How could a priest in all good conscience use such scare tactics to continue to take money from people he is trying to get rid of? Just how much blood money do they need?

A