www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Patriarch Alexei renews complaint on Catholic "proselytism"

Rightly so.

Quite accurately.

This is the direct and inevitable consequence of the Catholic adoption of an American culture based on democratic (speaking of pagan) principles.

The philosophies behind the United States Constitution include Theism, Protestantism, and Pagan Democracy, and are fundamentally opposed to the true authority of the Church. An emperor who has not been crowned by the Church is no emperor at all.

Yes. An idea shared by, of all people, Jesus Christ: "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above" (John 19:11).

I recognize that I probably seem absurd to you. I can live with that. For more on Theocracy, visit Blog of the Dormition [holydormition.blogspot.com].

I don't know if the question is so much being against a State religion. It is about equal freedom and opportunity.
One may have a State religion but that does not give the State the right to oppress and suppress others, unless of course if they are doing something immoral and illegal.
Stephanos I

I remember when I was working within a State that had a Lutheran State supported organization. It took Catholics along time to be given the right to exist and carry on their mission. But still until recently they had to pay state tax to the Lutherans.
Then a parishoner of ours took the case to the European Court and won. Now the State gives a proportion of the tax money to the Catholic Church.

Stephanos,

Well, isn't it immoral to embrace a false religion? And if it's prohibited by State law, isn't it also illegal?

I think the separation of Church and State is a good way to keep the Church leadership humble, and isn't that exactly what they need to be if they're going to work effectively for Christ?

A Roman bishop recently answered a reporter's question, "do you think the Government should listen to the Church?" by saying, "no, I think the Government should listen to the people, and the people should listen to the Church." While I disagree with that ecclesiology (since the people are part of the Church), I think the bishop knew he couldn't give the reporter a lesson in ecclesiology right there, and stated this in a way that would make sense to most people.

Anyway, this is how I think authority should flow. People will listen to you for one of two reasons: love or fear. I don't think Our Lord meant to say, "he who fears you, fears, Me."



Peace,
Deacon Richard

Everyone needs to be humble. Everyone should be working effectively for Christ. Both churchmen and statesmen are meant to serve God.

Who is going to keep the statesmen humble? Clearly, no one has been doing this for quite sometime. King Henry II, on the other hand, after he contributed to the murder of St. Thomas Becket, was made to walk barefoot through the streets of Canterbury wearing sack-cloth while eighty monks flogged him with branches. He then spent the night in the martyr's crypt. The same kind of penance should be recommended to Presidents Clinton and Bush for their crimes against humanity. As the Church and State are separate, who is to recommend it? Together, Church and State could keep each other humble


Should the Government listen to the people if the people hate the Church or Her teachings? If most people favor the legalization of the murder of a certain class of people (which, debatably, they do) shouldn't the Government stand with the Church, rather than the people? The law must not be relative to the whims of the masses. Truly, the people should listen to the Church, but when have they ever done that?

You know what I meant! A person is free to believe or not believe even if it is false belief.
Stephanos I

Leaders in a democracy will always have to have a certain level of humility and accountability to its constituency. That's why despite all it's flaws, a representative government remains the best option for organizing human societies.

The purpose of the state is not to serve God, at least in a direct way. The purpose of the state is in effect to keep order and pave the streets and otherwise stay out of our lives.

The church can't keep secular governments in check or make leaders humble anymore because it has lost credibility to do so, and the current reasons are still in the headlines. The historic reasons are well known.

Thank you, AMM.

I would only add that that "certain level of humility" may not be very big, but at least it's theoretically greater than the humility required of monarchs and autocrats, and has some kind of mechanism in place to enforce it.

I currently work in an environment where employee feedback is routinely sought after and an atmosphere of mutual respect is fostered. The result is much greater job satisfaction, cooperation and productivity than in autocratic environments I have worked in before, where people always smiled and said nice things to the boss' face, while behind his back it was a different story. I think the same principle applies to government.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

A democratic republic cannot be the control rod for every society; the people must be tempered to it or there will be anarchy.

Some parts of the world have a deeper respect for strong leadership, as seen with Putin, than they would with the fragmented power structure in the States.

Terry