www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Parishes being run into the ground in the Eparchy of Passaic

Amen to that. Don't just jump. Look first. I attended a Ukrainian Greek Catholic liturgy a few weeks ago for the first time---talk about a difference in the music! The words were very similar. But the melody was about as different from what I was used to as the new RDL at my Ruthenthian church. Altough, the priest was absolutely wonderful. He was very charismatic, full of energy, inspriring, witty and just a great speaker. If it weren't two hours from my home and I didn' thave a Ruthenian church in my back yard, I would certainly consider changing to UGC--at that parish, at least!

The big thing people seem to forget is that the entire make up of a church--from the part time parishioner to the Vicar of Peter--are all human beings. Therefore, imperfect. Politics plays a big part in things---don't be naive. Egos can sometimes take over and the good of the people get left behind. Greed, lust, whatever temptations we face---Priests, Bishops, Cardinals and even Popes also face.

If anyone truly belives the Holy Spirit is behind every decision at the Vatican or at every Eparch/Diocese, or for that matter, every church, in the world or, for that matter, at every Seminary---you better stop and re-think.

I don't mean to sound hard. I'm not. I love my church, I want only the best for it. But just look at history--and I don't mean hundreds of years ago (i.e. the battle against the gnostics and the other gospels that many churches used before the year 150, the persecutions of one Christian group against another such as the Donatists, the "rape" of Constantinople by the Venetians, The Spanish Inquisition) but just look at the Vatican Bank Scandal in the 1980's. If you saw everyting that is documented in the Vatican Bank Scandal happen in a movie, you would not think it possible. You'd say "no one could write that, how stupid do they think we are? Not even Robert Ludlum or Tom Clancy could write something that unbelievable and far fetched." But it happened, every bit of it. Who knows what is going on now that we don't know about and may (or may not) find out about in the next few years?

Back to the topic--don't jump before you look. Remember--human beings run the Church. Decisions made one day can be reversed by the same person or another person who follows. It might take days, months, years or centuries. But the decision CAN be changed. If God had wanted a perfect church, he wouldn't have put humans in charge--he would have put Angels in charge. Just think about your decisions before making them.

Tim

I won't be making any decisions now. I have to regroup and wonder why our parish is being suppressed and the parishioners are being oppressed. Read the Newsday Forum.

Tim, those are very wise words of advice. We too attend a Ukrainian Liturgy once in awhile, just because we need to be able to communicate with God in a place that enables us to feel His presence, something our poor Church of the Resurrection lacks now. We truly are so impressed with the absolutely beautiful singing of the choir, which is comprised of merely a handful of people, including a few youngsters. The church is so tiny they don't even have a choir loft, but sit together in the front pews. As you said, the Liturgy is identical with the Ruthenian Liturgy (before the changes), many of the words are quite similar to the Slavonic, but the melodies are different. But the atmosphere is warm and welcoming. Still, we will be careful.

I want to mention here that my husband, who is a history teacher, is reading a book right now titled "The Vatican - Conspiracies, Codes, and the Catholic Church," by Jack M. Driver.
One has to read it bearing in mind that it is a history, and that, as you say, The Church is governed by mere mortals who have human failings.

Thanks you again for your advice.
Meg

A very good and dear friend of mine, who also happens to be one of the few remaining parishoners @ Resurrection in Smithtown sent me this, and I felt it needed to be shared with the rest of the group. My personal observations and comments are interjected.

Hypocracy and the Eparchy

Fact 1: The congregation of Resurrection is mid-middle class at best.

<<Very true. There were no jet setters, no doctors, lawyers. We were very much a "blue collar" group of people. I can remember whenever someone got a new car, it was a very big deal and everyone noticed.>>

Fact 2: Living on Long Island does not come without great cost.

<<This was one of the reasons that I moved off of Long Island.>>

Fact 3: The Eparchy exacts not only Stewardship money but also quarterly (monthly?) tolls from each church based upon the income received.

<<I can understand the Eparchy collecting from the parishes, much like the parishes collect from the parishioners. Double dipping almost gives new meaning to the phrase "give 'till it hurts.">>

Fact 4: The Eparchy by way of its appointee has decimated the parish by "ejecting" people back to their "jurisdictions" and also by providing a generally unpleasant environment.

<<I personally looked forward to the social aspect of the church and its functions. I remember being taught somewhere that God's house was open to all. Funny, the Romans don't turn people away because of their birthright. Why is it that after 35+ years that people are now being turned away, or forced out because of birth?>>

Fact 5: Fewer parishioners will gross less income.


Fact 6: Many, many bulletins since November 2005 have continually warned about finances.

<<It was a recurring theme for Fr. U to insert brief financial statements into the bulletins, as his way of "personalizing" it>>

Fact 7: We are being treated as if we are morons.

<<Worse. We are being treated as if we are naughty children who cannot possibly comprehend bigger things. Forgive me, but I know that God works in ways not known to us mortals, and that is perhaps best. I was always taught to question what I don't understand, and by that gain knowledge and wisdom>>

As I read through past bulletins, I sat and shook my head. It is all there...just read the words
from ONE 2006 bulletin issued by Harry:

"Bishop Pataki has not intention of closing this parish."
"Parish members support the parish through their responsible financial contributions. If you expect outsiders to support you by attending the Bazaar, then you are living off their fat and not your own sweat. The Bazaar must not be thought of as a sustitute for your giving but as an assist to help your financial support. A Bazaar that depends on outsiders as workers and helpers because parisioners are unable or unwilling to work, can hardly be called a parish function. If the parish cannot function without the bazaar's bearing most of the financial burden, then we are in trouble. The future of this parish is in the hands of the people who attend services here and to whom the welfare of this parish matters. Some parish properties will be liquidated and the money realized will be invested in order to generate some sort of income to assist with parish expenses not to substitute for individual contributions." ...... "It is now incumbent upon me, the pastor, to try to sort out the parish finances as best I can. To be quite honest, witht he present rate of giving, the bazaar account will be drained long before September 2007. We run at a deficit. .... "I will go to the Bishop and ask him to reduce the $18,500 per year DDA contributions... There are other comers which will have to be cut--luxuries (HUH?) which will have to be pruned away. .... As I said at he beginning, the Bishop will not close this parish unless the people of this church request it."

<<The Bazaar was a Church function. Many people, including yours truly, worked their behinds off for those four days, and for many months beforehand in order to raise money. And when we needed assistance with it, Fr. Dan put out the word, and people responded out of the goodness of their hearts. If only parishioners attended the Bazaar, then the Eparchy would not have received their tithe from it. Seems to me that they have been enjoying the fruits of other people's labors.>>

Fact 8: We were stripped of the Bazaar and Nursery School, which equate to less income.

<<Now I read on the Newsday forum about how Fr. U closed the school because it was "unsafe." Horse hockey! I was there when that building was built from the blood, sweat, and labor of the devoted parishioners who donated their time, talents, and labor. If it was so unsafe, why wasn't it closed down earleir? It was closed because someone else made that decision.>>

Fact 9: See Fact 5.

Fact 10: Now we are told we have been running at a deficit. Why didn't the bishop, in Christian charity and kindness, reduce the amount of the Stewardship long ago instead of treating us as Cash Cows. He could have realized a problem by the report of the quarterly income and what he received in assessments. Instead, they took and took and took.

<<I think the loss of the money from our Bazaar started to hurt them on the ledger sheet, and we quickly transformed from asset to liability.>>

Fact 11: We do not get a line items accounting of income versus expenditures. What we get is suspect at best.

<<Fr. Dan never gave an accounting of financial matters, to the best of my knowledge. I am sure that if anyone needed to know, it could have been made readily available. Not to mention that with the Bazaar, we were more or less self-sufficient>>

Fact 12: The sum effect is: they were able to reduce the size and sources of income thereby translating into "the people of this church request(ing) it." And the parishioners will ultimately take the blame.

<<How true that is, and how cleverly it was brought about.>>

According the other good people elsewhere who have been hurt by this same bunch, they experienced exactly the same treatment which resulted in the church closing. Can we beat them to the punch?

Hmm, I would like to think that we can "beat them to the punch." Had it been realized sooner what was going on, perhaps. I understand and can accept that the Lord does indeed work in mysterious ways. I cannot beleive that it is "God's will" that this parish be put out to pasture. Wouldn't God want to welcome more of His children into all of His houses?

I don't know why people are so surprised at corrupt clergy, like everyone was perfect until the big bad Catholic Church got too much power in the dark ages. People forget that it was a high ranking bishop (the treasurer of the Church) who, for 30 silver, caused the death of Jesus Christ by betraying Him to the Jews.


I know that in Ukraine, espiecially in eastern regions where we are denied parishes, Greek Catholics usually attend church at either a Roman Catholic or a UOC-KP church. I would not have a problem going to a UOC-KP parish until a Greek Catholic one was set up, but in America if I was forced because of a parish closure or whatever choose Roman Catholic or Orthodox I would take Eucharist at the saturday evening mass with the Roman Catholics then go to Orthos or Divine Liturgy the next day at the Orthodox parish.

<<Fr. Dan never gave an accounting of financial matters, to the best of my knowledge. I am sure that if anyone needed to know, it could have been made readily available. Not to mention that with the Bazaar, we were more or less self-sufficient>>

Fact 12: The sum effect is: they were able to reduce the size and sources of income thereby translating into "the people of this church request(ing) it." And the parishioners will ultimately take the blame.

<<How true that is, and how cleverly it was brought about.>>

According the other good people elsewhere who have been hurt by this same bunch, they experienced exactly the same treatment which resulted in the church closing. Can we beat them to the punch?

Hmm, I would like to think that we can "beat them to the punch." Had it been realized sooner what was going on, perhaps. I understand and can accept that the Lord does indeed work in mysterious ways. I cannot beleive that it is "God's will" that this parish be put out to pasture. Wouldn't God want to welcome more of His children into all of His houses?

Joe, every January, Father Dan would give a financial report of the finances, expenditures, etc., of the previous year. Everything was itemized, and for some time before he was forced out, he would publish the amount of weekly collections in the Sunday bulletin. I am a saver and still have copies of some of those yearly reports. Now, however, we know nothing - absolutely nothing. Figures that don't add up and make no sense are published from time to time, and we are continually being told that our expenditures exceed our income, but we are never given a detailed list of expenditures. We know nothing of what is happening to our parish properties. We come to church on Sundays, or pass by during the week, and we see dumpsters by the rectory and in other places. We have no idea what is being done, what is being discarded. We went to the social hall one Sunday after Liturgy and found all our dishes, trays, etc., were gone. We have no idea what happened to them. This past Sunday, it was noticed that some kind of work was being done in the house that was our Eastern Christian Formation school. Workmen were putting things into a truck. We have no idea what is going on there - whether the house has been sold and is being readied for occupancy, etc. We haven't heard a word about the cemetary, which we were told originally (over a year ago) was going to be sold to the Roman Catholics. All our assets, financial and physical, have been confiscated, and we have no idea what is being done with them. Each Sunday, new religious artifacts appear in church. These things are expensive, yet we are told we are running at a deficit. I could go on and on. We are being treated so badly, it is heartbreaking. What is even more heartbreaking is the knowledge that some parishioners are depriving themselves, giving larger donations, in the hope that by so doing the church will remain open. The threat is always there - stop donating, and your church will close. As was so aptly stated, our parishioners are hard-working people and life on Long Island is not easy. I find I have to continually remind myself that the men who are doing this to us are mere mortals and will some day have to answer to God for their actions. If we can't "beat them to the punch," - don't worry. In the end, God will take care of it.

This is exactly how these are being handled...throw out statements that would ultimately place the blame back on the people...take away fund-raising possibilities...have you heard the one yet about "insurance purposes"? That seems to be a favorite one...then as money begins to tighten (after they have cut off the fundraising) jack up the expenses...and essentially waste the money...this is SICK...I've lived through it...I continue to pray for you and the souls of the heirarchs in the BCC since they are well aware that this behavior goes on and yet sit idly by and allow this...

Chris

PS that language in the bulletin had some of the exact same wording of things that were said to us as well...

This is exactly how these are being handled...throw out statements that would ultimately place the blame back on the people...take away fund-raising possibilities...have you heard the one yet about "insurance purposes"? That seems to be a favorite one...then as money begins to tighten (after they have cut off the fundraising) jack up the expenses...and essentially waste the money...this is SICK...I've lived through it...I continue to pray for you and the souls of the heirarchs in the BCC since they are well aware that this behavior goes on and yet sit idly by and allow this...

Chris

PS that language in the bulletin had some of the exact same wording of things that were said to us as well...

Chris, the insurance "scheme" is being used on us as well. The people in charge of the Bazaar, Nursery School, and other fundraisers were well aware of the necessity for the proper insurance, and were very careful to make sure things were done correctly and adequate insurance coverage was maintained. From scornful statements made by our Pastor, referring to our parish members with disdain as "blue collar," he and the hierarchy apparently consider us to be a bunch of moronic "yokels," who could not possibly have done things correctly. What these men fail to understand is the love and regard the parishioners had (still have) for Father Dan. They would never, ever proceed to do anything that would in any way jeopardize him. Also, Father Dan maintained respectful and loving relationships with the people in charge of the Township of Smithtown, and adequate legal advice was always available. So, when the insurance "scheme" was thrust upon us, we all knew full well it was nothing but a pack of lies. But how does one fight an operation like this, that has been carried out successfully numerous times? Sometimes I feel like I'm part of a grade B "Godfather" movie. We will try our best, but these men have had a lot of practice.

They must have a whole primer published on Running a Parish into the Ground! Attached to the late June/July 2006 bulletin were "Some notes on Financial matters"...which stated:
"INSURANCE. Our carrier is Catholic Mutual and our Agent is Althans Insurance of Chagrin Falls, Ohio. We are not permitted to deal with any other agencies. I have been informed by the Insurance Agency that our Bazaar has never been covered by them nor is it covered at present. The Bazaar is outside the umbrella of the policy. Coverage of the Bazaar will require higher premiums and demand that all providers be licensed by the proper authorities and covered by their own insurance. All outside providers must also secure additional insurance in the amount of $1,000,000.00. This certificate of insurance must name both Resurrection Parish and the Eparchy of Passaic as additional insured parties. It is NOT adequate to obtain a certificate of insurance which names the parish as a "certificate holder." It is important to note that only parish activities which are open to all parishioners are covered by our policy. Private parties, even if sponsored by a parishioner, require additional coverage for each event."
So there you are: The INSURANCE issue.

On the same page: "A pastor may, at this own discretion, spend up to $5,000 for a specific item or service. In order to spend an amount over $5,000 but less than $25,000 for an item or a service, the pastor must secure pemission from the syncellus (Fr. Hospodar)."

The notes were 2 pages long, full of "orders" to the parishioners regarding his regime and the way it will be done. The last line says: "I serve at the pleasure of Bishop Pataki. It is he who assigned me here and it will be he or his successor who transfers me."

And it is obvious that a transfer is not going to happen in view of all of the letters and complaints that have been registered and IGNORED by the Eparchy.

Just reading all of these posts and the posts that still continue on Newsday made me wonder if the Eparchy has a mission statement. Can anyone post it here? It might be somewhat humorous to read in light of these recent tragedies thrust upon our people.

What is with the blue collar remark? 'Blue collar' citizenry isn't good enough for the Eparchy of Passaic? LOLOL! Lets see the evangelization plan to attract a white-collar-only membership. At this point I'd be happy to see ANY evangelization plan.

We can continue to dwell on the negative for the next 10 years. I'm sure what has been done to you by this heirarchy will not easily be forgotten, anf like the 5 Stages Of Grief" you will go back and forth between stages many times before you can heal from this terrible ordeal. You WILL heal, and some new church will be happy to have such good people among their ranks.

Maybe you are the lucky tomatoes. You are being picked from the vine while you are still fresh and alive in the spirit.

Meg, if this is true, it is insane. If this is true, you and the rest of the people there should run away from this church. If this is true, you should join an Eastern Catholic parish from another rite / church, or you should think about joining an Orthodox parish. Quickly.


There is a saying for people who are gullibly being exploited like this. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Enough said.

-- John

There is a saying for people who are gullibly being exploited like this. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Enough said.

-- John

[/quote]

Amen and AMEN!
Just take yourselves away from this whole mess before they have the chance to do real spiritual harm. Just go. God will provide. It may take time, but pray and trust in Him. God will provide!

Sam

Now, however, we know nothing - absolutely nothing. Figures that don't add up and make no sense are published from time to time, and we are continually being told that our expenditures exceed our income, but we are never given a detailed list of expenditures. We know nothing of what is happening to our parish properties. We come to church on Sundays, or pass by during the week, and we see dumpsters by the rectory and in other places. We have no idea what is being done, what is being discarded. We went to the social hall one Sunday after Liturgy and found all our dishes, trays, etc., were gone. We have no idea what happened to them. This past Sunday, it was noticed that some kind of work was being done in the house that was our Eastern Christian Formation school. Workmen were putting things into a truck. We have no idea what is going on there - whether the house has been sold and is being readied for occupancy, etc. We haven't heard a word about the cemetary, which we were told originally (over a year ago) was going to be sold to the Roman Catholics. All our assets, financial and physical, have been confiscated, and we have no idea what is being done with them. Each Sunday, new religious artifacts appear in church. These things are expensive, yet we are told we are running at a deficit. I could go on and on.

Meg, if this is true, it is insane. If this is true, you and the rest of the people there should run away from this church. If this is true, you should join an Eastern Catholic parish from another rite / church, or you should think about joining an Orthodox parish. Quickly.

Oh, it's true alright, and what I have described here is just the tip of the iceberg. Add to it the absolutely inhumane way people are being treated by the person who is supposedly our new pastor. Before all the children got thrown out of church, there was one First Confession class that was already underway when he took over, so he had to go through with it. Next Sunday, there was a note in the bulletin "Congratulations to the First Communicants." No listing of their names. Nothing special was done for them. If a Liturgy is being said for anyone, their name is never mentioned during it. And our pastor has at times described our parish (with great disdain) as being "blue collar." Another parishioner who posts put it very aptly - cold, cold, cold. The reason people haven't fled to another "jurisdiction," is because we were such a close church family, and it's hard to say good-bye to dear friends. People came to Church of the Resurrection from afar, and there is no Eastern Rite church within realistic travelling distance
for a lot of them. There are several Orthodox churches about 15 minutes drive away, but there is what I call the "fear factor" involved in attending an Orthodox church. I've heard it many times when I mention we were contemplating joining an Orthodox church.........."But it's not under the Pope." As if God will look askance at us if we dare to attend an Orthodox church, or any other, that is not "under the Pope."

There are some serious accusations that have been made, which, if true, are a breach of fiduciary responsibility. On the other hand, if these are just emotional rants, they are uncharitable, at the very least.

In any event, this forum is not the proper venue for such accusations. If you have proof of a breach, then inform the proper civil and/or ecclesiastical authority.

Anyone of those Orthodox churches would welcome you with open arms, if you walk inside. Don't let not being under the Pope bother you. It bothered me for about two nano seconds before I converted, but guess what!, I can honestly tell you that God does really love non Catholic Christians.

I really hope this tragic situation changes for the best for all of you.