www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall the crusade ?

I recently received this, forwarded to my email, from a member of my family:


It had the opposite of the desired effect. It did not inspire me. It repelled me, because it seemed to mix militarism and religion and (presumably?) the current war . . . and because I am for the separation of religion and the state, among other reasons.

I don't want to rehash debating the war, etc.

Instead, I am curious:

Do a lot of people in America share these sentiments: mixing Christianity with militarism and the current American war in the Middle East?

-- John

Interesting...

Lately my thoughts have been on the elevation of the military in our country to that of near diety. I have two brothers in Iraq right now, so that and the war in general have been on my mind.

I find it troubling...

I have a question for the older people on this forum. Has the military always been held in such high esteem, or is it a post Vietnam thing? Maybe a response to the guilt felt at the treatment of some vets returning from Vietnam?

Unfortunately, in the southern United States where I live, this is all too common. It is the bread and butter of American Evangelical Christianity. There is a strong sentiment among most Evangelicals that one should never question the United States nor Israel, but support both unconditionally.

Notice too how this little blurb that was sent to you John uses guilt. It is quite manipulative.

Joe

The unwavering support of Israel is what I find the most bizzare. I've talked to Evangelicals that I'm convinced would support Israel over the US. From the reports I've heard, the Israelis aren't too friendly to Christians, which makes this even more strange. Politically, they won't support any president who won't continue the billions of dollars in aid and military to the country. They take all of this from the Old Testament verse the God "Blesses those who bless Israel" (not a direct quote).

Strange, strange, strange. You can support the right of Israel to exist without giving them billions of taxpayers money.

It is weird. If you don't confess unquestioning, enthusiastic approval for the military, the Church, and the war, all together, it smacks of disloyalty and heresy and deviance.

Now, my family has more than a few people in the military. Currently in the military, I have two siblings (one active, one reserve), two in-laws (both retired), and five nephews. One family member returned from Afghanistan with injuries that took months to heal. Another is in the middle of his second tour of duty in the war: the first was in Iraq, but this one is in Afghanistan. I have two more who are getting ready to start their first tour of wartime duty (both in Iraq). And, I am proud of them all and the service they have undertaken.

I mention all this so no one can accuse me of being anti-military. I think I'm more pro-military than many folks because so much of my family belongs to the military.

But, that said, it's just really bizarre for me to see Jesus mentioned in the same space as fighter jets: the one being treated as the flip side of the other. We are talking about the same Jesus was killed by soldiers because the government (and the religion) of the time found Him to be politically inconvenient (and challenging to the status quo) . . . right ?

-- John

They make a strict distinction between Israel and the Church and hold that Israel is still God's chosen people above the Church. When I was growing up, I even heard preacher's claim that Christ's death and the Church were really God's backup plan. Apparently God originally intended to send Jesus and if the Jews had accepted Him, He would have inaugurated the Kingdom on Earth and ruled as a Davidic King from Israel.

Many of these dispensationalists also believe that in the new heaven and the new earth, God will rule from a heavenly Jerusalem and only the Jews will be allowed to live there. We gentiles will have to house up on the outside though we will be permitted to enter the city freely.

I was also told, when I was a child, that God created America as a Christian nation so that we could be God's home base, sending out missionaries to all the heathen (especially those heathen that live in Catholic and Orthodox countries). I remember when the Soviet Union fell, some preachers exclaimed that now the Russian people would get to hear the gospel for the first time.

Joe

Joe, that is . . . amazing. I would be laughing if it didn't make also want to weep . . . or ask for lithium to be added to the water supply.

-- John

John:

I appreciate your frustration. Unlike you, I do not have lots of military connections in my family. I have never served, my father never served, and neither of my grandfathers served. I have no brothers and most of my male cousins have not served. However, I due believe that we owe a debt of gratitude to those who serve-and this is without regard to whether we support any given war. I am adamantly opposed to both of the wars into which President Bush has led us. However, I do appreciate and honor the sacrifices made by those who serve. Opposition to war does not need to translate into hostility towards those who are enlisted in military service. I find mistreatment of veterans on the basis of one's opposition to a particular war, or to all war, to be contemptible. I find calling into question the patriotism of those who oppose war to be equally contemptible.

Ryan