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Pelosi won't condemn 'gay' slur of Last Supper
Spokesman: 'As a Catholic, the speaker is confident that Christianity has not been harmed'
Posted: September 28, 2007
3:07 p.m. Eastern


� 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


Participant in previous Folsom Street Fair, which features public displays of nudity and sexual fetishes
Asked to respond to a San Francisco "gay"-festival's promo mocking the Last Supper of Jesus Christ, the chief spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi offered a dismissive quip.

"As a Catholic, the speaker is confident that Christianity has not been harmed," said Drew Hammill, the San Francisco Democrat's press secretary.

WND reported earlier this week the Last Supper poster promoting the Folsom Street Fair replaces the bread and wine with sex toys and depicts Jesus Christ and his disciples as "half-naked homosexual sadomasochists."

Scheduled for Sunday, the annual sadomasochistic "leather event" features public displays of nudity and sexual acts.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57886

This type of abhorent, juvenile, sick and perverted, unrespectable and despicable behaviour is what does most harm to homosexuals...
In other words, there is no greater enemy to the homosexual than HIMSELF!

Shame on Nancy Pelosi and every other politician who allows this type of DISGUSTING mockery of our or any one else's religion...SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!!!!!!!

KYRIE ELEISON!!

Alice

(I also think that the Democrats are harming themselves VERY much with their siding with this ridiculously defamatory anti-Christian agenda...I really wish that they would give it up, so that true issues that affect citizens in this country can be addressed)

Pani Rose,

It would seem to me that anyone, Christian or otherwise, who is comfortable with this type of depiction has not been deeply touched by Christ such that his sacrifice and gift mean anything to them,otherwise this would be not just insulting but sad and painful.

What's interesting is that whether the prophet Mohammed has touched a muslim's heart or not s/he would be scandalized by something like this and protest. Sadly, Christians don't seem to have that instinctive response.

Peace,
Indigo

Dear Indigo,

My blood pressure is as high as it goes when I read this stuff, but I won't take to the streets to burn effigies, make death threats on people, or riot like the Muslims do, so what CAN we Christians do that will be effective?!?!?

Alice

Speaker Pelosi has mastered the "art" of the Washington Waltz. In a manner of speaking, we can all agree "that Christianity has not been harmed." (remember the gates of hell will not prevail.)

In a follow up interview she was asked about the public funding that subsidizes the Folsolm Street Fair:


Well, Madame Speaker, you're not really addressing the question...

Well, I think it's time San Francisco's Christians organize some kind of boycott. But admittedly, that must be one tired group of Christians.They see everything and are probably used to not being to stop anything because they're outnumbered.

Alice, I don't know exactly how Christians should respond, and, of course, the Muslim extremists tactics are out of the question,butI don't believe that even moderate Muslims would allow a slur upon their religion to go unchallenged.

PErhaps the problem is that Christianity is no longer seen as sacred anymore so no one is shocked into these actions by these types of displays.Even during the Middle Ages in Europe people were steeped in the Bible and the air resounded with church bells, psalm recitations etc.much like Muslim countries are permeated with koranic inscriptions and the calls to prayer. PEople still say God Willing, etc. Even if a muslim is a tepid believer he's so steeped in the religious atmosphere that blasphemous displays would shock him into a reaction.

But then, I wonder how monastics would respond to something like this?

Well I know what I'm going to do. I'm a student in San Francisco now and the event isn't far from my place. At Mass I'm going to offer every note I sing up for these people. And after Mass I'm going to walk down there, rosary in hand. And I'm going to pray. Out loud. Kyrie Eleison!

Very brave of you, CatholicNerd. You might consider bringing others with you. The type of activists that turn out at these events can be violent and abusive, especially to faithful Catholics, unlike Ms. Pelosi.

You also might consider praying quietly...Our Lord and Our Lady will hear your prayers, and your silent praying witness will speak volumes (and with volume) to others around you.

God bless,

Gordo

It is a rather pointed slur. It's like the artwork in New York of a montage of private parts to form an image of Mary, or the crucifix immersed in urine. It's "free speech", but if they had been offending a protected group it would not have been given public support.

I would imagine that if the sensibilities of Christians were to explicitly shape policy or to influence Pelosi to condemn the "art", then there will be people crying foul over the separation of Church and State. It's a very weird situation we've come to.

In liberal Protestant circles, I would suspect Catholic too but I don't know, there are interpertations of the relationship of Christ and the Apostles as filtered through Queer Theory. It's rather sick, but the claim has been floating around for some time. This depiction would fit in with how some of those liberal 'theologians' (by trade, not scope) see Christ.

Terry

'Inshallah', Christians everywhere will wake up.

As for Christians, there are still some places where it is permissable to be one, and where it still has some respect...For instance, I will admit that it was nice being woken up in Athens on Sundays and holy days in our neighborhood by the first church bells for Orthros, and then if I had not woken up yet, the second church bells for DL. It was also nice to see new huge churches being built everywhere in that city.

Another tidbit that is neither here nor there: (since you brought up the Muslim culture)While there, I was watching a Turkish television serial w/English subtitles there about a middle class Turkish family (they owned a baklava making bakery), and it was interesting that the children, even adult ones, in their culture traditionally kiss the hands of their parents--even after a heated argument, etc.

Back to the topic at hand: It seems to me that this horrible stuff does seem to be primarily coming out of this country...people are generally more respectful, though not necessarily religious, in the countries of Europe.

I don't know where all this blasphemous anger comes from here, because that is what it is--ANGER!!! Infact, I would venture to say that this anger, from these artists and gay groups, is much like the anger of a rebellious child who is furious that his/her parents won't give in to their wants and desires. So, perhaps it is the fact that there is a very Christian and influential sector and mentality in this country, which has been with us from day one--with the Puritan ethic, that permeates our country, and which is therefore, creating this gross type of deliberately OFFENSIVE REACTION from immature people who have not grown up and who are simply rebelling like pathetic children.

Alice

If you ask me she should be publically rebuke by the Church and if she remains unrepentant, then she should have a ban of excommunication imposed upon her. Unfortuantely she has gone so far away from the faith that I dont think that would matter to her much. See arent you proud of me, I didnt even use the "D"
word.
Stephanos I

We had a conference this weekend with Dr. Beckwith as one of the speakers. NOW THESE ARE SOME OF MY NOTES AND NOT HIS EXACT WORDS

One of his topics was of the title that was given to him, 'In America, Jesus is not Lord'. He thought it an odd title at first, but as he prayed it led him into teaching us about it. He used John 1:1, that Christ is Logos, the Word, existence of everything in knowledge itself depends on Christ Logos, but in our culture the debate is over reason and matter.

Gen 1:1, the theological truth is absolute, it transmit dignity,ethics, absolutes, it all arrives from the Nature of God.

He went on to explain that our culture is a Dictatorship of Relevatism, meaning that no one has truth, so everyone should be open minded, it is under the authority of each person.

So his nephew or niece (can't remember which), presented this to his professor. Well if no one has truth, why should we listen to anyone. The response was basically, only religion - especially the Catholic Church - cannot be true. That you can believe what you want, but not believe it is true. Well you get the picture.

The CD of the talks are available through ccrob@catholic.org .

That is the grave state of affairs when Pelosi, says that this will not hurt Christianity. She is right, the gates of hell will not prevail against Christ and his Church. However, Scripture states in Matthew 10:

14: Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father.

33: But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.

The point being, she has not only marked her soul for denying Christ. Look at the people who will listen to her. Has she affected their faith? If she has lessened it in anyway, she has also marked her soul. For each person involved in this hideous action, her words have only encouraged them, they too have been hurt by her words.

Yet, she does this, then receives Christ in the Eucharist!

That is my concern, for her and so many. Example...

# If a believer who is conscious of having committed a mortal sin eats and drinks the consecrated bread and wine, does he or she still receive the Body and Blood of Christ?

Yes. The attitude or disposition of the recipient cannot change what the consecrated bread and wine are. The question here is thus not primarily about the nature of the Real Presence, but about how sin affects the relationship between an individual and the Lord. Before one steps forward to receive the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion, one needs to be in a right relationship with the Lord and his Mystical Body, the Church - that is, in a state of grace, free of all mortal sin. While sin damages, and can even destroy, that relationship, the sacrament of Penance can restore it. St. Paul tells us that "whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup" (1 Cor 11:27-28). Anyone who is conscious of having committed a mortal sin should be reconciled through the sacrament of Penance before receiving the Body and Blood of Christ, unless a grave reason exists for doing so and there is no opportunity for confession. In this case, the person is to be mindful of the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, that is, an act of sorrow for sins that "arises from a love by which God is loved above all else" (Catechism, no. 1452). The act of perfect contrition must be accompanied by the firm intention of making a sacramental confession as soon as possible.
http://www.usccb.org/dpp/realpresence.htm

I find it so ironic that these homosexuals would seek to shock and to hurt so many people, when they themselves have been the victims of a lot of hurt. You'd think they would know better.

This is almost a type of hate speech. It's really just disgusting.

Alexis

Well let me tell you what happened to me the other day, which shows how these people are, walking to my car a man drove by and gave me the finger. I smiled and said softly Pea brain, then I thought oh no, I should not have said that, so I said split pea.
Stephanos I

These people? Father, I don't know who you are referring to.

Anti Christian people was whom I was referring to.
Stephanos I

Gordo, I agree about praying quietly. It may do more to send a message than the "ravings" of "just another judgemental Christian." If anyone in the area would like to join me, send me a PM! We'll be done with Mass at St. Dominic's at around 12:45-1:00ish.

Father Stephanos:

With all due respect, the gesture you received does not necessarily mean the man was a homosexual. There is a lot of anti-clericalism stirred up in this country since the clergy sexual abuse scandals have hit the airwaves. My pastor has lamented to me that everyone seems to think that every celibate Catholic priest is either a homosexual, a pedophile, or some kind of damaged individual who has someone--male or female--on the side and just hasn't come clean.

And anti-clericalism isn't just restricted to the U.S. Some 25+ years ago a priest friend of mine went home to Milan to visit his mother. While walking down the street--without any clericals to identify him--he witnessed a man run across the street, knock down a priest walking along in cassock, and beat him unconscious, all the while yelling about how the dirty priests had hung his great-grandfather for not paying his taxes (during the time of the Papal States in the 19th century).

Being a priest, as you well know, is an act of courage in being a radical prophet to a reality and way of looking at and living life that is at odds with the world. The Lord warned we would all be hated for being part of Him. Be glad that you were able to be thus humiliated. Your Master was spit on.

In Christ,

BOB

Actually Bob I was not inferring that he was a homosexual.
Stephanos I
But given the are in which I live there is a large possibility he was.

Mark Shea's blog had a link to a site with some pictures from the "event." I have never seen such vile displays of depravity in my short 31 years of being on this planet.

I definitely saw many things that stripped these people of their dignity as humans. (Pun intended.)

I'd just caution about being judgemental.

The "Folsom Street Fair" (I know people who have gone) is essentially 'street theater'. Like many 'artists' their point is to push the envelope to generate attention and reaction that ultimately leads to $$$$ in response to their outre representations. They know the buttons to push.

Working with the gay community (and the black community, and the disaffected kid/punk community in AIDS prevention) for more than 20 years, I know for a fact that most gay folks reject this sort of stuff as being beyond the pale of human decency. In fact, many gay folks are church-goers, and there is even a gay-friendly denomination - the Metropolitan Community Church - all over the country that uses sort-of basic Prot identity and welcomes the 'disenfranchised' gay folks who are both believers and in many ways quite traditional.

It is analogous to saying that Fred Phelps and his folks represent American Christianity when they vocally picket the funerals of deceased military because their deaths are a punishment for America's sins - including 'acceptance' of homosexuality.

They're all nuts. Our Lord cautioned us that the poor would always be with us, but he never mentioned our having to deal with the Looney Tunes. And dealing with them - of whatever ilk -is for me and many of us Christians a major cross.

Blessings!

Dr John

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. Digging hooks into the subcutaneous tissue of another person's back, attaching wires to those hooks, and making the person mush like a sled dog as another whips him is not "art." And it is degrading to both parties involved.*

If the average gay person condemns this trash, where are they, why haven't they spoken out against it? We see Muslims who speak out against Islamofascism, yet we don't see anyone from the "gay community" speak out against these kinds of perverse displays.

*I can find the pictures from Mark Shea's Blog if you don't believe me. Caveat.

Dr. Eric:

So do we condemn all gay people on the basis of the actions of some? Surely that's not what you're suggesting?

Ryan

No it's not.

But, where is the outcry condemning this behavior?

I think most people choose just to ignore it.

Why?

If there were Catholics blowing up Planned Parenthood facilities and shooting abortionists I'd make sure that everyone knew that they didn't represent the stance of the Church or Catholics in general.

Well, if we are going to insist that gays who don't engage in this sort of behavior condemn those gays who do, we'll need to be consistent in the application of this principle across a whole host of sins and social groupings. For example, the USA has an unfortunate history of foreign policy decisions (and I'm not singling out President Bush here-I think this problem is one that is truly bipartisan) that are morally questionable at best and have the result of increased suspicion and hatred of Americans. Yet, I notice that there are millions of Americans who are not occupying themselves with condemning these misguided decisions, and I don't really hear much of an outcry within the Church about this. Another example has to do with wealth and poverty. Is it the responsiblity of those who are wealthy and generous constantly to condemn those who are wealthy and fail to follow the teachings of Christ and the Church concerning our duties towards the poor? How often do you hear this? What about sexual discrimination? Do men have the responsibilty (as a group) to cry out and condemn every instance in which a man is guilty of chauvinism? I'm afraid if we get into this, then we'll have to spend all of our energies determining every single instance in which we're required to speak out and condemn the actions of others. For me, that's problematic.

Ryan

Homosexuals could be the nicest friendliest people on the planet (and I'm sure some are) they could all be in long term monogamous relationships, and trying to make the world a better place for everyone, but it wouldn't change the fact that homosexual activity is always a mortal sin in any and all instances. So realistically speaking, whether a university professor and his concert violinist 'partner' have been togather for 40 years or whether it's just two guys in leather, whipping each other in public, it's still mortal sin.

"in any and all instances?" I don't think any sin is a mortal sin in any and all instances. I thought that according to Roman Catholic scholastic theology there has to be 1) grave matter 2)sufficient knowledge 3)sufficient freedom. Am I wrong?

This topic is going WAY off subject!

The matter here is not IF homosexual sex is a mortal sin. It IS, according to the Orthodox AND Catholic churches,just as many other sexual sins are. There is NO debate here.

The topic here is about certain DESPICABLE art and actions of a certain group that are becoming all too common, all too 'in your face', and all too pathetic. ANY public actions DEFILING the sanctity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by any other group would be just as despicable. PERIOD!!!!

The topic here is about just how far are people, politicians, lay people, the media, etc. going to go in turning their eyes away from these actions against CHRIST and his followers!

The topic here is about just how long are good and decent people going to allow ANY group of pathologically immaturely behaved and rebellious hearted people (I am deliberately not calling them 'sinners' because we are all sinners) to get away with BLASPHEMY against our Lord, against our children's eyes, against our common sense of decency in the name of 'open mindedness', 'fairness', 'charity', and yes..that dreaded term: 'political correctness'.

I am AGHAST that every Christian, practicing or not, liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, friend of the gay community or not, is not SCANDALIZED. Personally, I think enough is enough. I am tired of public ugliness against our sensibilities, and public defamation about our Church and our Lord, by certain groups.

This is not about politics nor is this about fairness because despicable blasphemy is definitely not fair to our pure, sinless, Lord and Saviour that came to redeem us of our sins.

With this, I am going to close this thread.

Alice, Moderator