www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall record 22C temperatures in the Arctic & rain at the North Pole

Actually the rapidity that the warm up happens in is relatively short, the last time the warm up and subsequent Little Ice Age took only 20 years.
Stephanos I

As you guys fight it out on the issue of whether or not global warming is a natural cyclical phenomena (which I support) or that it is man-made (or aggressively accellerated by man), I would ask you to take a look at this particular meteorologist's blog:

http://www.norcalblogs.com/watts/weather_stations/

Basically, it gives creedence to "Urban Heat Island" effect that we do have in some metro areas. But more importantly, it goes on to talk about how our weather data collection instruments of record are not giving us an accurate picture of what's going on weather-wise due to their improper installation.

Scroll around the site... read some of the comments. I promise you will find it interesting.

The real question is what is anybody really, practically, going to to about it?

Are you going to live in a cave and lick the lichens off of the walls? That's the only way you're going to have Zero Impact on the environment.

That was a rhetorical you and not pointed at anybody here.

But we can minimize impact. Not that I'm a shining example, I drive a big German SUV...but kudos to those who put their money where their mouth is.

Alexis

Maybe if we all stop using a lot of incensing in our Churches, then Global Warming will go back to it's normal pace?

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

I go to to Alaska for work several times a year. It's clear that the temperatures in both Fairbanks as well as Anchorage are waaaaay warmer than they used to be. It's having a major impact on the native people who rely upon subsistance hunting and fishing for their survival. Even our Russian Orthodox priest friends are in deep trouble since they are not able to do what they need to do to survive. (www.dioceseofalaska.org [dioceseofalaska.org])

Both His All-Holiness Bartholomew and His Holiness Benedict have been calling for a world-wide focus on man's choices that are doing potential harm to our earth.

While wood and coal fired stoves/furnaces provided heat and cooking for 19th and early 20th century people, there are now so many more people on earth that our impact is going to be significantly greater. And, as God's anointed stewards of His creation, we can't just ignore our responsiblity for its care, and all its animals, plants and it elements. Just as killing another human being desecrates God's creation, ignoring the earth that nourishes us is a parallel sin. We spit in the Creator's face when we desecrate His creation. Profiteers do it with impunity; Christians shouldn't even think about doing so.

Holy Father Francis of Assisi, pray for us and bring us your graces!

Blessings!

Dr John

Actually maybe if we started to slaughter all the cows and elk and moose, we chould have a very big impact on global warming.
One of these animals product as much carbon as a flight from Los Angeles to the Phillippines.
Stephanos I
Lets start a bumper sticker campain, "Spare the Earth, kill a cow."

I have a Kansas friend who attributes the 'hole in the ozone layer' to cow farts. Actually, it seems to make sense with the methane emissions. So, I guess we should emulate the Cistercians and the Camaldolese in avoiding meat.

But this is just a red herring.

The real question, as acknowledged by Pope B-16 and Bartholomew, is what are we doing as part of God's creation, to be faithful stewards of the earth that has been given to us for our care?

If we just consume and ignore the realities of the earth's well-being, then we are like the stewards in the parable who bury the talent. We aren't making any benefit from what has been given to us. (And the benefit is OURS and our childrens'!!)

There are many opportunities to both respect and enhance the creation that has been given to our care. It's a sin to just ignore it and hope that things will be hunky-dory in the future.

Blessings!!

Dr John

Actually, if all Eastern Christians actually kept the fasts it would make a huge difference. If all Eastern Christians fasted from meat, fish and dairy on all Wednesdays, Fridays, and the other appointed times-- it would have a serious impact in reducing the demand for meat and fish. That, in turn, would reduce the pressure for transforming forests into ranches and fish ponds. The forests, in turn, would be able to continue what the planet needs them to do: removing carbon dioxide from the air and replace it with oxygen. And that, in turn, would slow global warming. Combined with other measures, it could help reverse global warming. All this is possible: from fasting . . . when and how we are supposed to be doing so.



I agree with you that Christians are supposed to be good stewards of the earth. Fasting is one of the ways to do that and to inspire others too. Our happy fasting can and does inspire by our spiritual discipline, by our balance (fasting some days and not on others), and by our improved health, etc.



Well said. Hopefully, what follows is the beginning of a good answer.

A lot of stewardship of the planet is simply doing what we should be doing anyway as Christians . . .

-- "Thou shall not covet" means living a materially simple lifestyle. St. John Chrysostom preached on this too. It has a spiritual effect; it has a social effect (by freeing up resources to help the poor); and it also has a material effect. It reduces economic demand for manufactured products, and that reduces pressure on the environment especially by overproduction.

-- Fasting from meat, fish and dairy on the required days helps spiritually (discipline, detachment from pain), physically (better health), and environmentally (as discussed above).

-- Morality and compassion not only help us avoid hell; they also strengthen society and people's lives and thus reduce the need for artificial substitutes for happiness and wholeness, like materialism, gluttony, lust, greed, drugs and whatnot.

-- Revering nature as the creation of God and as filled with the Holy Spirit helps people stay focused on God and communing with God, directly and with each other. And that, in turn, inspires people to take care of the world and each other. As Fr. Alexander Schmemann observed in "For the Life of the World," when the Gospel is rightly understood, Christ is seen as redeeming all of creation for the life of the world, which was created by God to be a vehicle for communion with God.

Etc.

But, we don't do these things. Or, we don't do them consciously. Or, we don't do them systematically.

And so, we leave it to others --the Buddhists, the Taoists, the New Agers and so on -- to be doing what we should be doing . . . And then we look at the matter of global warming (or even spiritual living) as us versus them -- instead of seeing Christ in everyone and everything (and seeing everything and everyone in Christ) and responding accordingly.

Some of the Orthodox mystics understood this, the omnipresence of the Holy Spirit, like St. Seraphim of Sarov. There was also Fr. Amphilochios of Patmos (as recounted by Bishop Kallistos Ware) in the 20th century, who encouraged ecology, especially by planting trees, as an act of theosis. There was also Fr. Schmemann and his masterful work, "For the Life of the World." And so on.

God help us that we imitate them.

-- John

What if global warming was better? The last warming brought many acres of arable land which otherwise could not have grown any food. It seeded exploration and led to a burst of economy and the standards of living increased.

Global cooling would be far worse. The effects of the warming are ultimately unknown; it's also not absolutely certain that a warming of 1-2 degrees will lead to shifts in the ocean currents.

A poll of scientists does not transform scientific theory into scientific fact. There is enough peer reviewed literature that complicates the global warming narrative, so I remain skeptical at some of the claims.

Better for whom? It might be better for Canada and Siberia; those places would become fertile. It would be lousy for Florida, Louisiana, Bangladesh and other low costal areas (including metro Houston), which either may well be flooded.

I know your skeptical; so was I. But there comes a point (in my opinion) when the evidence is so abundant that we have to say: there is something happening here. And then we have to figure out a way to live with it and, God willing, even to fix it.

-- John

But it is in our nature to adapt. Too many people seem to despair over our future. That is what I react against the most.

Terry

A few things I want to address:


I don't think any reasonable people claim that the earth's temperatures don't rise at times, including now (although your OP story doesn't "prove" global warming in any way). What is disputed is whether the recent rise is unprecedented, and as harmful as some people claim.


Compared to what? I'm not a scientist, but every time I've heard temperature figures in the media, it is always a very small sampling (usually no further back than the 1930's at the most). The earth is millions of years old, and we only have a few years' data, yet we think we can come to absolute conclusions!?!?


This is my biggest concern. Modern history is full of cases of humanity trying to "fix" a "problem" of nature, only to make it worse. Whether it was the eugenics of the early 20th century, or the third-world aid programs of the late 20th century, we have a poor success rate for solving nature's problems. So I am afraid that our attempts to "fix" global warming will have unintended consequence far worse than we can recognize now.

If you would have carefully read my previous posts then you would have noticed that that was my point exactly!
Stephanos I

Going off on a slight tangent:

You know it is funny how the health benefits to us from abstaining from meat are like gifts from Heaven, yet we refuse to accept these gifts. At the time that Greeks in Greece were observing the fast, and were economically poor, it was found that they had the lowest incidences of heart disease almost anywhere in the world...thus giving rise to the famous 'Mediterranean diet'. Infact, in studies I have read, it is the Greek diet, specifically, which is the healthiest.

Unfortunately, today's Greek has bought into fast food, whether it is McDonald's or souvlaki, and many Greeks do not fast on Wed. and Friday anymore.. the benefits of their traditional (which still exists, ofcourse) delicious main courses of various tasty cooked vegetables or legume dishes in olive oil, tomato sauce and herbs, when eatern, are now often supplemented with meat on the side, and the incidence of heart disease is on the rise. The Greek feels that it is 'poor' to eat simply like this, and truthfully, I don't know many American men who wouldn't say, at seeing a plate (even if it were a huge plate) of cooked vegetables infront of them, and a loaf of healthy bread with salad and cheese on the side: "where's the beef"!?!?

Today I read a definitive study about the benefits of less meat in the prevention of breast cancer. The article was quick to point out that it is not ONLY the addition of more veggies and fruit to the diet, but the *elimination* of meat. The recommended weekly allowance of meat in both of these instances is three times a week....hmmmm...all one needs to do is follow the Eastern fasting rule (even in its relaxed state of simply abstaining from meat), and voila: incredible health benefits, as well as less demand on the environment as John pointed out!

Alice