www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Here we go again!

I think what Zan is trying to say is that there was so much confusion about what Vatican II meant and how it was to be applied that the Catholic Church was in real danger of splitting into as many pieces as there were parishes. Everyone was an "expert" and every visiting priest had an idea that what they were doing was so much better and more "in the spirit of Vatican II" than the parish they were visiting. It got to the point that in many places one never knew what to expect. This priest cut this and this one cut that and no one knew if he'd been to Mass or had to go somewhere else to make up for what wasn't there. Then there were those who actively preached from their pulpits against one or another doctrine, or one or another practice. And we've still got lots of that going on, though with JPII's tenure lots of things were forcefully clarified as to what the official interpretation is and should be.

So I don't think the idea was that everyone had become a relativist, but that no one seemed to be able to say what things ought to be believed and what should be one's practice. The whole put-down of the time was "we don't have to do that anymore" or "you're out of step with the times and you don't have to believe that anymore."

In Christ,

BOB

As we all know, San Francisco is the epicenter of the most politically active in the homosexual community. They have fought a very successful battle to have their "lifestyle choice" legitimized, in the US and elsewhere.

I find their public actions repugnant - as I find the obedient quislings of Planned Parenthood repugnant - and I am not afraid to say so.

Now, if the Roman Curia has written off the United States - perhaps they have written off Canada, I don't know - that would be a big mistake.
The reluctance of the US Catholic bishops to take on the abortionist politicians who call themselves Catholic has been endlessly debated here and elsewhere. This isn't the first time there have been weak bishops and it won't be the last.

Courage is risky.

It has done what my mom would call a "piss poor" job

Not so much the Church Herself but many of her repreentatives and members who have not shown Christian love and have driven so many gay people away from the Faith by real hatred and terrible prejudice. This has happened in all churches not only the Catholic and Orthodox and it is a terrible shame. People have been killed and driven to suicide. People I know.

Thank you, Father Anthony, for the most balanced post of this whole poor thread.

Brian,

Is there a group like Courage in the Orthodox Church?

http://couragerc.net/

God bless,

Gordo

It seems to me that every discussion related to homosexuality comes down to the following:

1) Someone posts something related to homosexual activists attacking the Church and her teachings in some way.

2) A few people express their outrage at such behavior.

3) Someone jumps in upset at the "obsession" with homosexuality and the "hatred" displayed in response.

I think those who fall into (3) above are misguided. First, I have seen no "hatred" on this thread (or similar threads). Expressing outrage at attacks on the Church is not hatred, it is a proper response to such actions. Who here has expressed hatred towards any individuals? Believing those who perform such blasphemous behavior should be excommunicated is not a "hateful" action, but one based on love.

Second, the supposed "obsession" of Christians is backwards: our culture is obsessed with promoting sinful sexual activity, particularly in recent years with homosexual behavior. This promotion has caused much pain and suffering to God's children. Thus, resisting such promotion of disordered activities is not obsession, it is being a disciple of Christ in the world.

Finally, my best friend from High School (who was a Christian) was pulled into the homosexual lifestyle and it destroyed his life (drugs, jail, sexual relations with minors). It is out of love, not hatred, that I personally am so concerned about homosexual activism. After seeing what it has done to my friend, I wish it on no one.

Gordo, I see what you are trying to say. I know Courage and have known men in Courage- it is good for some, not good for others. I think both Orthodoxy and Catholicism are beginning to face this issue and that it cannot be faced as it did 50 or 100 years ago. with greater scientific knowledge as wel as greater pastoral care. This is all a good thing.

We may disagree greatly on this issue but I'm glad that we can do it civilly.

Brian,


I do not want to be argumentative, but I have to ask something. My understanding of Courage is that it encourages people with SSA to live celibate lives within the Church. How is that ever NOT good for someone?

Good question Francis, I'm interested to hear the answer to that myself.

Jason

I have split off the replies from the point above and sent them as a new thread to Town Hall for any further discussion. This thread has strayed off course in many directions. This thread is now closed.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator