www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Here we go again! (SSA)

Thank you for your insight, Father Gary, and welcome to the forum!

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

Father Gary,

That was a very needed and balanced post! Good to have you on the Forum!

Yes indeed, well said Father.

Joe

Fr Gary,

Thanks for your well written and insightful post.

For many years I struggled, as a Protestant, with believing that I was innately sinful because of my inclinations. I teetered on the brink of despair for a very long time and found no one and no group who could help. I never attempted suicide but certainly came close. I have mental issues to this day and I'm convinced that the origin was in the unhealthy atmosphere of my religious upbringing in regards to my homosexual inclination. I kept it to myself and told no one except for my best friend when I was a senior in high school. Fortunately he responded with grace and understanding. It was not until many years later, through reading the works of Anglican Leanne Payne that I came to understand that my feelings and orientation were not sinful, but that only my behavior could be sinful! What a tremendous relief that was to grasp. It was not too many years after that revelation that I became Catholic, in large part because of the Catholic understanding of anthropology and sin. Prior to that I had been a strict Calvinist. Well Calvinism and SSA dont mix. It's a bit like drinking and driving.

At any rate, God bless you and priests like you who understand what those of us with ssa endure. Especially those of us for whom it is a burden. These days though, it's not such a heavy burden for me since I have understood it to be a cross given to me for my own salvation. I only wish everyone with ssa could accept their situation with grace AND lay hold of the vision of chastity. It's so easy to justify acting out when one feels with all his being that "this is the way I am". And it's true, that is how he is. But that is not how he is called to LIVE. I'm sure there are many ways to suffer, but the way we are called to suffer is to offer up our sexuality to the Lord to be used for His glory, not our own satisfaction. It was another revelation to me that the Church has always understood 'crucifying oneself" to mean refusing to let our natural passions have their way. I had always been taught, or at least believed, that we were to KILL our passions and replace them. Now I know that I am not to do that. My passions are good. But they can destroy me if I live by them. Its not crucifying my "passions" that must happen, but crucifying myself. Letting my will die that the will of God might live in me. In short, saying no to sin, without denying my feelings, and DOING what is good, and holy, and pure and true. God knows I have many failures but I know that in Christ I am accepted and that is enough for me. He has promised "I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you" not even when I commit terrible sins. But I certainly have the freedom and capacity to leave him. And the more I justify my sin the farther from Him I get. This is why I believe it is important to stay close to the sacraments of Reconciliation and The Eucharist. To commune with God in freedom and with a clean conscience.

Jason

Fr. Gary, naturally no program can "guarantee" that anyone change his orientation, anymore than a program could be devised to guarantee someone will not lust for a member of the opposite sex outside marriage. This would be emphasized in a pastoral counseling setting. However, the Church in Her prophetic role must also clearly enunciate that these two attractions are not equivalent: one is, in Roman phrase, "inherently disordered." This is particularly important in postmodern Western society, where all sexual proclivities are regarded as equally sacrosanct and morally unassailable. If there is any hope of alleviating a disordered attraction, it would be natural for the Church to call others to make use of it -- without assuming success, of course.

And more to the point, anyone who has set out on such a course should be given all the support we can muster. Which is the point of this thread.

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Jason, God bless you in your struggle.

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Western Orthodoxy Blog [westernorthodox.blogspot.com]

Read the witness of people who have been in organizations like Exodus International and you may change your views on "ex-gay" programs
The Orthodox and Catholic Churches do not advocate such programs.

One of the reasons this topic remains important amongst USA Catholics, Father, is that unlike the England and France from which you post, the battle is still being fought here to keep our public schools from teaching our children to embrace homosexuality as normal and homosexual acts as healthful.

The notion that there are other more important matters for the Church to be involved in that trump protecting children from false, unscientific teachings that are demonstrably harmful - psychologically, spiritually, and physically - is spurious. The Church in England has lost its fight against your Sexual Orientation Regulations, which are well on their way to criminalizing traditional Christianity there; please do not try to export your despair over here, where the fight is still on.

Pax

Dear Jason,

Thank you for your brave and inspiring posts to this forum. They are a blessing that God has inspired you to share.

Respectfully,
In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

Do you really suppose that the UK is no longer fighting over this ?

Take a look at this news item - frankly I'm appalled
Newspaper article [dailymail.co.uk]

That is HORRIBLE!

Perhaps this is a point on which Muslims, Jews and Christians in the UK can get together to have a strong voice about? I hope that happens, because despite our differences, we can stand together on things like this.

Regards,
Alice

Of course their are sins in this world that are more grievous than homosexuality, but how many sins are their that are regularly defended by people, sadly in the church, on this forum etc the way homosexuality is ? It's amazing the way attempts are made to turn the issue into one confusing gray area that we shouldn't discuss, i,e, "You say homosexuality is sinful, but you say nothing about Republican tax breaks for the wealthy, or the war in Iraq, or the death penalty,or heterosexual couples shacking up, etc, so if those issues get a pass, homosexuality should as well."

It's really not that hard to read between the lines and see that the message being propagated is that the Church's teachings are wrong and that their is nothing sinful about active homosexual relationships.

From looking at the articles on the side bar from the link that Anhelyna provided, it would seem that things across the pond are just as bad as they are here in America.

Maybe the people who think the world is quickly coming to an end are right...

Just a note:

It has become my firm belief that programs that try to change sexual orientation outright through things like "reprogramming" won't work. Here is what I mean.

I have come to believe (and it is a stronger belief in my mind everyday because of the evidence and talking to people) that same sex attraction is not necessarily something that is directly caused. There might be genetic factors for it. There might be environmental factors for it. But in almost all cases I have come to feel that it is an effect.

The cause lies somewhere else, most likely in a type of interior wound. For most people, in relation to this sort of attraction the wound has something to do with both their father and their mother (in my experience).

So it seems to me that the only way to heal the effect is to heal the wound. Sometimes it might not even seem like it is something connected, but somehow it is on the inside.

I am not trying to say that I understand this issue completely, but I think this is a good start.

So what can be done?

-pray to God specifically as FATHER, develop that relationship
-pray to Mary as MOTHER
-ask him to reveal your interior wounds to you

It is a struggle, but I do believe in the end that for many people it is something that can change, as long as the core wound is healed.

Homosexuality is no different than a heterosexual person's attraction to one whom they are not married. Those heterosexuals with sex addictions are "intrinsically disordered", if and when they act out those genetic/environmental feelings, it is not to be promoted. A human person is called live celibately, according to their state in life.

If a child has an inclination to pocket something he or she likes - and all children do - does that mean thieves are exempt from trial because it can be claimed as a "natural phenomenon"? I haven't heard anyone try such a defense in a legal case...