www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Should I go ahead and say The Divine Liturgy anyway?

Most of the Orthodox Old Believers in Alaska do not recognize Priests. Some of these Orthodox Old Believers told me that thy would let say The Divine Liturgy. So what I am asking is should I say The Divine Liturgy even though I am not a Priest and risk being excommunicated or should I wait to be ordained by one of our Bishops. Note - I am one the Orthodox Old Believers that recognize Priests.

You need to talk to your priest or your starosta. Not knowing which branch of the Old Rite you are in does not allow me to offer you any advice.

Alexandr

I am in union with the Belokrinitskaya Hierarchy. - Popovtsy(with priests)

Absolutely not. In any Church that believes in the apostolic priesthood it is a grave sin for a laymen to simulate the Divine Liturgy, which indeed is all it would be.

Father Deacon is right. The Belokrinitskaya Metropolia is a canonical hierarchal Church and for a layman under the Belokrinitskoe Soglasie to playact as a priest would be a sin most grievous.

Alexandr

Wait, I'm confused. What about a Reader's Service? Isn't that where the parts of the Liturgy are sung with out the priest?

Or is there something else going on here?

Must be. What is he actually asking? Reading the liturgy is something anyone can do.

There is the Typika, which to me looks like the reader's equivalent of the Divine Liturgy. If that were the case, that'd be the best option in my view.

Markos

It is not quite clear just what is being proposed.

We can only agree with Aleksandr and others who have pointed out, quite correctly, that the Old Orthodox Church (or Old-Ritualist Orthodox Church) in submission to the Bielaia Krinitsa Hierarchy is indeed a hierarchical, canonical Church which most emphatically does not and would not countenance anyone not a priest purporting to "say" the Divine Liturgy.

Since there is a functioning parish in Alaska, with a priest, the sensible thing to do for those Old-Believers who wish to attend the Divine Liturgy is to go and attend that parish. Whether they themselves then wish to submit to the Bielaia Krinitsa Hierarchy (and I pray that they will) is a matter between God and their consciences (and may also have to do with ignorance of the history of that hierarchy - opponents of the Bielaia Krinitsa Hierarchy have often stooped to outright slander and libel, as well as completely irrelevant and unproven accusations).

The best choice, I suggest, for a Reader's Service is, quite simply, a Moleben. This would offend no one and shock no one. But why would a faithful member of the Old Orthodox Church wish to do this on any regular basis for people who do not recognize the Church he belongs to?

It all sounds quite strange, and in serious need of a fuller explanation. The suggestion that th questioner should discuss the matter with his parish priest, and perhaps with Archbishop Sofrony, is the best thing for the questioner to do.

For the sake of Christ, forgive me.

Fr. Serge

FATHER SERGE:

Father bless.

I think your advice is right on the money. I've always wondered why one would even consider the possibility of leading worship or taking an active leadership role in worship for a community with which one is not in communion.

I was once put in a spot like that in my professional capacity and had to explain to a Lutheran minister why I could not help him administer communion in his church during a funeral. He knew I was a lay minister in my own Catholic parish and somehow thought that would make it easier since he didn't have any help during the week. Fortunately I got the matter resolved long before the day of the funeral.

Asking for your blessing and continued holy prayers,

BOB

The Blessing of the Lord!

And thanks for the compliment. Some highly unusual circumstances can arise, usually because of isolation (this is known to have happened, for example, in Soviet prisons and labor camps), but one must bear in mind the principle that "hard cases make bad law".

The conditions which the questioner describes sound more bizarre each time I think about it. If Bezpopovtsy want some sort of communal worship, one would assume that they are capable of doing this for themselves, rather than asking a layman of a Church which they do not recognize to do it for them! But strange things do happen - there was a group of what were known as "Wall People" living in and around a certain town in Pennsylvania; these were a variety of Bezpopovtsy whose particular practice it was to go to the local Nikonian-style parish church, but not enter the building - instead they would stand around the walls (hence the name) by the doors and windows so that they could listen to the services without actually attending them! Go figure. The specific group that I was aware of have died out; the practice may survive somewhere else.

Fr. Serge