www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Holy Days of Obligation- what to do??

Hi!
This is my first time posting. I am a Roman Catholic, however, I have been a parishoner at a Byzantine chuch for over a year. I have completely embraced the Byzantine tradition; our family (my husband, myself, my 4 year old, 3 year old & 3 month old) attend the Divine Liturgy on Sundays, Holy days & other days during the week. I feel as if I am more Byzantine than Roman now. My question is- do I need to continue to go to mass for Roman Catholic Holy Days? Our pastor at the Byzantine parish noted in the bulletin that Nov. 1st was a Holy Day for all Roman Catholics and that we should go to Mass. To be honest, I would have completely forgotten if he hadn't wrote it down in the bulletin.

So, now I feel that I need to go to Mass on Thursday. I had brought this question to a Roman Catholic priest in the confessional (bc I had missed a Holy Day once before and realized it afterwards). He said that as long as I'm living out one of the traditions (Roman or Byzantine) out fully and faithfully, then I didn't need to attend both tradition's Holy Days and try to follow 2 calendars at once. That seemed right to me, bc I'm not trying to "get out" of my obligations at all.

Also, its not that I don't want to be with Our Lord at Mass or the liturgy, but with 3 little boys, it can be hard to get to church on time on my own. I can usually do it. But, not always (week days). So, my long winded question is- who do I listen to? My pastor who wrote in the bulletin that Roman Catholic need to get to Roman Catholic Holy Days as well as the Byzantine days (it would seem). Or the priest I confessed to who said I can follow one or the other & that whether I'm technically Roman or Byzantine doesn't really matter. I'm going to try to get to Mass on Thursday, but if I don't make it, will I be in a state of mortal sin? Argh- I feel like bc I'm Roman Catholic on paper- I need to get to Mass even though I have fully embraced the Byzantine rite, its obligations, devotions & prayers. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

Well just change sui iuirs Churches and you won't have to worry about. However, no matter how long you go to a Byzantine parish, you are canonically Latin and bound by the canons of that Church including Holy Days of Obligation. Of course if you can't make it simply confess it next confession.

Fr. Deacon Lance

First off, let's get this straight. To change your rite to Byzantine you must fully embrace the Byzantine tradition, be a member of a Byzantine church, and keep the Byzantine Holy Days. So far seems like this is you. Even though you are "canonically" Roman you only have to observe one Liturgical calender....Byzantine. By doing this you can petition to have a rite change due to the fact that you no longer keep Roman Holy Days in lieu of Byzantine Holy Days. You are NOT bound to both traditions simultaneously. Any priest that says a Byzantine should observe Latin tradition is a misinformed priest. And sad to say there are many, yes many Byzantine priests that just "light up" when they talk about the Roman rite and all the western traditions. I bet there are very very few Roman priests that put our All Saint's Day in their bulletin and tell Romans that they need to observe both? Stay your course, shed your Romanesque ways and contact our Tribunal Vicar and he will get you squared away. Hope this biased opinion does not offend anyone and also helps you a little. I've been there.... but am glad I am now...... here!

Fr. Deacon!

Since when is it necessary to confess missing Mass if one is morally unable to attend?


Peace,
Deacon Richard

ctjmom,

I respectfully disagree with certain parts of Father Deacon Lance's advice. So long as you are a registered and active member of the Byzantine Catholic parish, follow that parish's calendar. The part I agree with is if you and your family feel called to our common life, make the transfer official. But until then, as our former pastor told us, when in East Rome, do as the East Romans do. That includes the fasting regulations and everything else. If you were simply in the position of a family who was just visiting an Eastern parish, that would be one thing. But it appears that you and your family are committed members.

Are you registered in this parish, BTW?

If you are worried about it, contact an RC priest, explain the situation and, if it will help, get a dispensation (while you are at it, get a series of them).

God bless,

Gordo

PS: Perhaps Amadeus or one of our resident canonists would like to comment. I'm open to being wrong here...

Gordo, you just made me think of something. If a member of a sui iuirs Church approaches a Latin Catholic and encourages them to become a member of that particular sui iuirs Church, is that considered proselytizing? Curious minds want to know?

Alexandr

[quote=Theologos] I bet there are very very few Roman priests that put our All Saint's Day in their bulletin and tell Romans that they need to observe both?

That would make sense bc you don't find many Byzantines at Mass. At our parish, there are quite a few Roman Catholics, so it seems like our pastor is trying to remind us of our obligation. But, I have to admit, I was a bit annoyed, bc I feel like I have to change gears for one day bc of my rite "on paper". Admittedly, the other thing that bugs me is that my kids obviously can't receive communion at Mass. They receive communion at our parish & love too. My 4 year old probably has a better grasp of what & Who communion is more so than many adults! It would break my heart & his to tell him that he can't receive on Thursday.

Our pastor isn't one who mixes the East & the West. He is very adamant about dedicating ourselves & living out the Byzantine tradition. A friend told me that he doesn't mind parishoners praying Western devotions, but wishes they would pray Byzantine prayers first. So, I think he's just trying to remind us of our obligation. I just don't see why I have to follow 2 calendars.

Interestingly, there is a Roman Catholic family at our parish who asked the Roman bishop if they could join our parish. The bishop said no- that bc they are Roman rite they have to join a Roman Catholic parish. --Glad I didn't think to ask permission- didn't think it was necessary. As I understand it, to change rites, I would have to petition the Byzantine & Roman bishop- so I worry that I would possibly be denied by the Roman bishop & then I'd sort of be "on the radar" & probably be told to go to a Roman rite parish. The thing is, my kids LOVE our parish. They know the liturgy & can sing all the hymns & pretend to be altar boys & priests, its great.- wish there was an easy way to change rites!

Yes, we are registered parishoners & also serve on a few parish committees.

Maybe I'm mistaken but isn't the point of "holy days of obligation" to drill it into the parishioners that if they willfully i.e. intentionally (that is without thought or reflection, brush it off) miss Mass, then they are revealing the attitude of their heart as being one that doesn't seek after Christ? After all, isn't that the intent of specifying mortal sin? Wouldn't someone who was even worried about the problem of whether they were meeting the legal requirements already show a heart that desires to please the Lord and obey the Church? What if a family becomes a part of a parish in the alternate rite (byzantine or latin) and simply chooses to follow their traditions whether they have "officially" switched churches or not? Does Christ really care whether the beuraucratic paper has been completed?

My friend, be of good cheer. Love God and do as thou wilt. The key is to love God. Attend Liturgy as much as it is possible and do good to others. God bless.

Joe

CT,

I'm afraid most of our Eastern-rite Catholic priests have experienced accusations of "fishing" for parishioners among the RC population. It seems absurd, especially in areas where an RC parish may have over 3,000 families while the EC parish has fewer than 300 total members.

Nevertheless, many of them are gun-shy, and don't want to get in trouble with the local RC bishop.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Guys,

When we have a Byzantine at a Latin parish we are quick to point to the Canons that say they have to respect our Traditions. That respect has to go both ways. A Latin in our parishes is still bound by Latin Canon Law, including those concerning Sacraments of Initiation, Marriage, Ordination, Fasting and Holy Days. Now Fasting and Holy Days I think are less a big deal as long as one follows one set of canons completely. But a priest could get into hot water Chrismating Latin kids for example.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Canonically I think Deacon Father Lance is right, you are a Latin until you have a change of Rite and thus you are bound by the law of the Church.
Stephanos I

Alexandr,

Great question. Let's just say that I approach a Latin Catholic who has never visited an Eastern Catholic Church before and invite them to attend our services to learn more about the East. Would that be prosyletism? I would have to say "no". It would be a form of catechesis very much in the spirit of Orientale Lumen.

Or lets say I as a layman encourage a Latin Catholic individual or family who clearly has more than a passing interest in the Christian East, but are in fact committed members of an Eastern Catholic parish to consider a transfer of rite to help clean up any messy canonical issues created by Latin obsessions about canonical regulations and "holy days of obligation" , than I am not proselytizing at that point either. I'm encouraging them to "regularize" canonically what is in fact their current spiritual practice.

But if I engage in an active recruitment of Latins to join Eastern Catholic Churches when they are currently active members of the Latin Church, then that is sheep stealing, IMHO.

My own sense is that, while I would not engage in prosyletism, I would care not a whit about Latin protests regarding proselytism by Eastern Catholics should they ever be registered. It would be as clear an example of the pot calling the kettle black as there ever has been!

God bless,

Gordo

Fr. Deacon Lance,

I was not referring to the administering of the Sacraments so much as fasting and holy days. I agree that there are degrees of latitude here that may not exist with the sacraments and the need to follow proper canonical procedures. I would think, though, that any Latin priest who is as well educated in the circumstances (especially the dwindling numbers due to Catholic schools and other issues) of the Eastern Catholic Churches would encourage visiting EC's to their flocks to reconsider abandoning their traditions.

God bless,

Gordo

Latins accusing Eastern Catholics of fishing in their ponds?!?

Good grief!!! The Roman Catholic school system has been one of the largest conduits of Eastern Catholic families transferring to Latin Catholic Churches for tuition benefits as there has ever been!!!!!!!!

Gordo