www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Mass appeal to Latin tradition

From the December 1, 2005 Wanderer:




From Bishop Rifan's more recent Rorate Caeli interview:

As far as numbers, from the Catholic Hierarchy site:
Year Catholics
2002 27,730 (first year obtained)
2004 28,325 (most recent - does show net growth)

But what may be more telling than these sometimes innaccurate diocesan census numbers, is the more accurately documented growth of vocations - from nine when the Apostolic Administration was first erected, to now 30 according to Bishop Rifan, and soon room for 80 seminarians. The authentic received tradition is indeed attractive to young people worldwide. And this is only one apostolic administration within one Latin diocese.

Similar growth in vocations can be seen in the Fraternity of St. Peter, dioceses such as Lincoln, Nebraska, etc.

Thanks!

I love seeing the Church grow in all of her forms and expressions. This is ultimately the reason I entered into communion with Rome -- it represents, in my mind and heart, a truly inclusive, thoroughly Catholic vision of the Church. Personally, I do not find the Latin Mass appealing or spiritually beneficial. The juridical presuppositions that undergird its liturgical ordo are foreign to my eastern theological focus. But I recognize it as being part of the Church's unversal witness and thus I rejoice that it has been blessed by Pope Benedict and I rejoice that it is growing and reaching people for Christ. I would say the same thing of "guitar masses" -- not my cup of tea, but, glory to God, they draw people closer to Christ and His Church -- and in that I rejoice -- while continuing to find great comfort and peace in the liturgical structure of the eastern lung of the Church

To get to the root: It's the prayer.

Liturgy is the opportunity for the community to enter into prayer - as a group. Some like one thing; others prefer something different. So, perhaps the idea of 'geographical' parishes is no longer relevant. Some go to parishes that use guitars and a 'communitarian' focus. Others prefer the more 'worshipful' liturgy that focuses on the mystical elements of salvation. And each of these communities has a lot of 'logistical' elements that are part of the 'ecclesia', eg, social activism, community programs, etc., or perhaps a greater focus on a strong paraliturgical program, eg benediction, 40 hours, stations, rosary, etc.

Is it such a sin to let folks find a community where they feel comfortable in -- and I emphasize 'REAL' prayer?

Unfortunately, some folks confuse the worshipful/sacrifice oriented prayer community with the 'accidentals' of the environment and language.

To be honest, I am driven nuts by the Latin-only folks who confuse the use of Latin in the Roman Church with dedication to the Church and the Gospel.

St. Paul tells us that we must pray with faith and 'understanding'. Parroting Latin phrases without understanding the meaning is not prayer - it's cant. The same applies for Easterners who use Slavonic or some other language. It's like the Hare Krishnas -- just say the words and "it's holy".

As one who studied a ton of Latin - and used it as a communication method in seminary -- it's a wonderful language. But one has to study it, not just memorize sound-sequences. When a traditionalist RC addresses another individual with "Dominus vobiscum", for me it's fingernails on a chalkboard. The "vobis" form is PLURAL. Unless the person is a schizophrenic with 2 personages, or something else, that use of the phrase is just stupidly wrong and offensive to real language folks. And to claim that this use of language is "prayer" is just ludicrous.

The real question is why is any particular language, i.e., Latin, Greek, Slavonic, Arabic, etc., holy and English is not?

The key element is - again - prayer. Prayer MUST come from the heart of the baptized person. It is the individual raising his or her heart and mind to God and asking to be heard. For a native English speaker, saying "Lord, in Your Mercy, please listen to me" is a lot preferable to "Domine exaudi orationem meam" or "Kyrie ekekraksa" or "Uslishimja Gospodi".

Why? Because the English words represent the true psychological and spiritual reality of the person who is praying. The 'foreign' words are just Hallmark pious phrases that one has learned to represent what is in the heart and soul.

We linguists have an intersting test on this: if you really smack your thumb or finger with a hammer (I mean black-and-blue), what you utter is from your native language. It's a direct link between your physical situation and your linguistic explosive utterance. It's the real McCoy. One doesn't say: "Mihi dolendum magnum passus sum!" One says: "Aiiii! Oh crap!" or something much stronger than 'crap'.

It comes from the heart (and the injured thumb!!)

Let's not be deceived by the use of 'cant', i.e., sound patterns that may come from a real or made-up language.

Prayer is from the heart, in response to the everyday realities of one's life. And it expression is either profound silence - I mean DUMBSTRUCK AWE - or real words that reflect one's heart and soul.

Blessings upon all!!

Dr John

Fascinating !

I think in modern American society, there is such a sundering of the normal set of human relatinships and values that quite a few people would find this kind of setting appealing. I know it happens with Orthodox Jews often. Now, it appears to be happening with orthodox (little o) Catholics. Fascintating !

-- John

A good post, Dr. John, and well developed. I agree.

I would build on that thought and say there is something even deeper here. There is a craving for an encounter with the Holy, both transcendent and as well as immanent. That covers the religious folks who don't pray much (some Buddhists and Hindus, for example) but who meditate a lot. And they, like lots of Christians, Jews, etc., seem to be searching for a greater or deeper sense of the Sacred and to build their lives around that. At least, that seems to be happening in America more and more. I don't have sociological data to prove it, it's just my impression from what I've seen and heard, but I suggest it nevertheless. Modern American life seems so . . . overwhelming . . . with its material goods, technology and "success." But, it seems like we have lost the vital common sense of transcendence that gave us a vital common set of shared experiences and values about the ultimate meaning of life and purpose of life. In other words, it seems that we're so plugged in that we've forgotten about God. And what you (Dr. John) are describing seems to be people's gut reaction against that.



Yes and no. Lex orandi, lex credendi. That said, people can get overly focused on or even idolatrous about the things of liturgy.



I can relate. I was looking for the right religious group. It was like the Goldilocks story: one was too hot, another too cold, but the third was just right. The too hot group was a Catholic religious organization that was too conservative for me: God spoke to them, and He spoke in Latin, and God have mercy on you if you claimed to be a good Catholic and didn't speak Latin too. The too cold group was a Catholic religious organization that was too liberal for me: I wondered if they were still Christian, or if they were secular humanists with religious trappings. Then I found Eastern Christianity (and, now the Orthodox Church), and I feel it has the right balance for me: plenty of tradition (including in its liturgy), but the services are almost entirely in English. There are some groups like that in the Catholic Church and Protestant Church too. It's just a matter of finding the right balance, where the tools of liturgy are used as tools for communion with God and not as idols.

Just my two cents.

-- John

There are very few of us out there who prefer the "Traditional Latin Mass" who wouln't mind if it were in the vernacular. What some of us object to is the simplified ceremonial of the Novus Ordo. I'd take a High Mass in reverent English anyday over both a reverently celebrated Novus Ordo in Latin, or even a Traditional Latin Low Mass. I'm also not fond of the Novus Ordo lectionary. The Tridentine lectionary is much more sane seeing as obscure bits of the Old Testament are not part of the lectionary.